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                    <text>Alaina Zulli
This is Alaina Zulli interviewing [redacted] goes by [redacted] on May 31 2007,
in Bobst library. Okay, so [redacted], let's start with your background. Tell me
where you were born. Then about your family.
Anonymous
Excuse me, I was born in New York City, Beth Israel hospital. I am the last born
out of four children, two boys, two girls. My mom is a single, single mother.
Unfortunately my dad was at the time I was born children. My dad,
unfortunately my my father was killed in some kind of confrontation with
somebody. So I never really knew my dad. I have a stepfather who raised us
who I kind of recognise as my dad because he's the only father figure I've
known. And we grew up in Brooklyn, Park Slope, excellent neighbourhood.
Should have stayed there. Guess that kind of answers a lot. And I, I mainly
grew up with just my sister, just me and my sister. My two brothers were
actually raised with my grandmother. I believe my mom probably had them
when she was really young. So they grew up with my grandmother. It was cool
like, we, we lived in a household where it was just the four of us. Unfortunately,
my mom has a my mom has a mental condition. She's diagnosed as being
schizophrenic. So that was a little weird sometimes, you know, my mom was
kind of always in and out of hospital. I actually when I was born, I was born
with what's called CAH, it stands for congenital adrenal hyperplasia. It actually
means I'm missing an enzyme in my body, my Adrenaline gland doesn't
produce a certain enzyme. And I was actually also born with ambiguous
genitalia. Which, as most people know, my sometimes I think about it when I
was born, you know, most babies when they're born, they like you have a you
have a girl you have a boy, I picture when I was born, it's like you have a Okay.
Wait a minute, give us a second, we'll get back to you. So, unfortunately, I I was
always in and out of the hospital myself, you know, young kind of went
through a series of reconstructive surgeries, which I think also kind of answers
a lot in terms of my sexual orientation. You know, being being a lesbian, being

�Butch, you know, based on just my overall appearance, you know, I have
unfortunate have higher testosterone levels, which gives me a more
androgynous Look, when people could kind of think that, you know, I'm a
female, but I'm not quite sure.
Alaina Zulli
Well, you have facial hair, which to many people is a clear indication.
Anonymous
Yeah, I mean, but nowadays with so many you know, transgender people, like
some people not too sure whether it's facial hair due to you know, hormones,
right. And, you know, the whole transition over
AZ
So were you raised as a girl or a boy?
Anonymous
I was raised as a girl as a girl, my mom put [compensated?] little dresses on
me and, and stuff, but I think what was unique about my mom was that she, I
think, because I was born with this condition she didn’t really enforce a lot of
like, she didn't, when we went out, I if it was a family event, she put a dress on
me. But really, I played with I played with cars, Star Wars figures, action figures,
I never really had dolls, like my sister was more though, the doll and makeup
type, you know, I played with cars, trucks, I was very active. You know, I would, I
was always jumping around, you know, just like a little boy, I was jumping
around. All my friends were boys. I really never had any little girls as friends. So
I think my mom kind of, you know, growing up, which was, I guess, good. She
never enforced it on me. You know, except for family events. You know? So
that was I think that was really good. In terms of, you know, my upbringing, I
wasn’t a kind of, you know, forced to be this little girl. I just grew up as a
regular child, you know, just enjoying the everyday life of just being a child

�AZ
Let you find yourself and just be yourself.
Anonymous
Yeah, I it's funny because I look back and I know you know, people I always ask
about, you know, when when's the first time you realise you a lesbian. And I
think back and I had to be like seven years old, in the second grade, like, I
used to have a crush on my second grade teacher. And I used to follow her
everywhere, like, you know, when the kids would go to lunch, and I never had
to go to lunch with the kids like I would, she would, I would have lunch with her.
She would take me rollerskating on the weekends. And I slept over her house
one time, but you know, I'm seven years old, and I'm thinking like, yes, sleeping
with this older woman. You know, and then, of course, you know, not every now
and then her boyfriend would tag along, and I will kind of get mad at him, you
know, go rollerskating. And I would kind of knock him down because I didn't
want him to be around. And then she got married, she announced to the class
that she was getting married. And she invited the whole class to her wedding.
And I refused to go. I was so upset. I was devastated. I was like, Oh, my God, I
just lost this woman in my life. And, you know, my mom kind of was trying to
force me to go and I was like, oh, no, no. So I kind of, I always think back and I
was like, wow, like, that was my first like, experience with, you know, like, loving,
not well, not loving, but you know, like, being attracted to another woman.
AZ
Sure. Yeah.
Anonymous
And I guess from Park Slope, we move to the Lower East Side, which was pretty
bad. It wasn't that bad. You know, we still should’ve stayed in Park Slope.

�AZ
Give me a timeframe for when you moved.
Anonymous
We moved when I was about 11 years old. Okay. So, at 11 we moved because
the building that we lived in was being sold. And so my mom just decided, you
know, we should move. So we wound up moving to the lower Eastside in
Manhattan, and it was good there. It was, I think it was also another confusing
time, because there I kind of developed more female friends. You know, like, I
even though I still kind of did boyish things. I had, I started having my female
friends like my best friend. From that moment on she, you know, we were
close. You know, I kind of really didn't look at her in a way that was like, you
know, why I'm attracted to girls. But all her other friends I did. And her sister.
AZ
All the other male friends you mean. Wait, you mean all your male friends
looked over that way?
Anonymous
No, I looked at her other female friends. Like, you know, like, hey, what’s up.
And it was just weird because she would always get me because we were
best friends. I she would always kind of duped me into like, you know, going
out with a guy. Which was, you know, also as confusing because I used to
think, well, well, this is what girls are supposed to do. Like dating. Yeah, like
dating. Like, she wouldn't be interested in some guy. And of course, his friend
would be there. So it's kind of like, you know why I want to be with him. So you
got to be with him. And I kind of felt you know, I think I made a lot of sacrifices
for my friend kind of like going in and just, you know, dating these these guys.
And I guess it wasn't really until I was probably 13. There use there used to be a
military Cadet that was ran by the center precinct. And my brothers actually,
when they were younger, they used to go there. And I wanted to go so they

�finally at one point, they kind of banned girls from being there, I guess
because of some altercation, but they started letting them back in. And I went,
and it was awesome. Because there I met this young woman. I don't know if
I've mentioned her name.
AZ
Well, you can you can choose not to have her name ever. Really?
Anonymous
Well, her name was Selena. And she, you know, she then became my kind of,
like, secret gay friend. You know, we both came out to each other, which was
cool. You know, like, I was like, you know, I you know, when you're young you
kind of feel like you know about you've heard terms, you know, lesbian and
gay. But you never really impact impacts you until you actually meet you
know, somebody that's just like you just like everybody kind of feel like you're
alone until you meet somebody. And we came out to each other then we
started discovering that there was other, you know, lesbians and actually
bisexuals at the time. And in our cadet, you know, which was cool because I
felt like you know, not only was I interested in this kind of military cadet, but
you know, it was also surrounded by, you know, my people, my kind of
discovering a whole new community. And I remember when we, we got on our
bikes one weekend and we kind of went kind of girl hunting. You know, we
were like 13, 14 years old. And we we got on our bikes and we went to it was
about this time, and we ran into all these gay people, like right around here
actually around Washington Square Park, it was we kind of got lost, we didn't
know we were going. We just We just heard that, you know, there are, you
know, gay people in the village. So we, you know, ventured out into the village
to go look for, you know, gay people. And girls. And we had just missed the
Pride Parade. Hmm. You know, so when you would, you know, we're riding our
bikes, and we see like, you know, drones of like women, you know, and girls
and other like, we at first we didn't know what what it was until we actually

�saw what gave it away is we saw some butch women so like, oh, yeah, we
found, we found our Mecca. And we had, we said, Hold this, this has got to be,
you know, there are a bunch girls. So that means there's got to be, you know,
you know, girls that we like femme girls around here. So we proceeded to dry
it, you know, to ride around on our bikes. And we found these, we found these
two girls who were 19 years old, of course, we lied about our age, we said we're
like 17 years old. And we, you know, proceeded to like kind of walk with them,
you know, hitting on them, and, you know, just kind of asking questions. And
after that just became our new, a new hangout spot. And from there, you
know, as I started going to cadets so I was going to I started going from my
timetable was a little screwed up
AZ
That’s ok. When you, if you can clarify. What your age, there abouts
Anonymous
Um, I would say like about between 15 and 16 is when like I started discovering
the village. And you know, we me and my friends then found out about
because I didn't realise that she was part of a youth group, which was called
Project Reach. And in the youth group, they dealt with social issues that was
like kind of my first interaction with a socialisation group where they spoke
about not only lesbian and gay issues, but issues around sexism and
homophobia, and, you know, classes and as well. So I learned a lot going
there just also, once again, just being around, you know, even tighter
community where people that are more of my age rather than me trying to
perpetrate and, you know, oh, they're lesbian trying to pick up all the women.
And from there we we started interacting with our Hetrick Martin Hetrick Martin
Institute, which is actually located here on Astor Place. It's probably one of the
largest gay and lesbian youth groups. It's also located the Harvey Milk schools
there also

�AZ
Oh I think I've seen that. Yeah, can you? Well, later, you’ll have to write that for
me. But Hetrick Martin
Anonymous
At first, they were located by the West Side Highway, but where what people
call the pier. Yes. So they were located there. So project reach was actually
interacting with other youth groups. So once again, my community and I
started seeing that this community is a lot larger. And then we started doing
work with the yes group for Richmond services, which is part of the gay and
lesbian center. So we started doing going over there and networking. And
once I got to the center, I was just, like, amazed, like a whole building just
dedicated for us. And we, that became our new hangout spot. You know, so
about, like, 17 going into 16 going into 17 that became a new, a new hangout
spot, which was actually the corner of 13th Street and Seventh Avenue
AZ
Place. I know
Anonymous
Yeah, yeah. So we used to all kind of that would be the meeting spot. So one
person would like 2 people would get there and then you would wait for the
rest of us, you know, the rest of the people so probably like about six seven
o'clock there was about close to 20 young people there lesbian young people
AZ
And you just stand around on the corner
Anonymous
Yeah, we would all meet up at the corner and then decide what we're gonna
do, which always resulted in ending up at the pier. So we would track down,

�walk down Seventh Avenue, till we got to the beginning of Christopher Street.
And of course, it would take us like two hours just to walk down the block.
Because we would stop and see people we know. And stop at stores, you
know, and, of course, it was all about fashion, even when I was younger, you
know, we used to stop and look at the stores and the clothing. You know,
because back then there used to be a lot of, I think it happens now. But
unfortunately, I'm kind of out of the loop, there used to be a lot of one was
called balls, balls. Yeah, they were basically many fashion shows that there
was small communities or houses that were ran by, you know, kind of, they
had mothers, which were predominantly like gay men, and by House fathers,
which was sometimes, you know, the butcher, lesbians, or sometimes they
would just be a gay. Another gay gentleman that was, I guess, a little bit more
butcher than the mother. And they would hold these balls, these kind of, kind
of mini fashion shows, and people would walk, like literally walk down this
catwalk for different categories. So some would run down, some would walk
for categories that we would call face, which will cover like you had a girl face.
So some of the most feminine gay boys would walk for that category, or they
had what was called boy realness. And some of the butch women would
actually walk in the whole thing was about passing. It was like, we had our
own little kind of fashion Yeah, show, which I don't know if you've ever seen the
movie. And you may want to pick it up, it's called Paris is burning.
Paris is burning actually talks about the beginnings of the whole ball thing
happened like in the early like, 80s. And, I don't know, if you've also ever seen
that show America's Top Model, Tyra Banks, yeah, she actually has a
gentleman in there, his name is Willi
Ninja. And his house was actually called the House of Ninja. And he was the
head mother, and they, he actually teaches these these models how to walk,
how to walk down the runway. So, we would go to these different balls
whenever we found out and we would go in and we would cheer for different
people that will walk different different categories. And, you know, we will go

�shopping with some people because, you know, you needed to have the
latest and greatest clothes. And I think the probably I used to have the most
fun when I used to go with the, with the boys, the Gay Boys, because they went
by, you know, they would buy these extravagant, you know, dresses, and they
would so funny, they would, they would buy them and keep the tabs on them,
you know, because it was so expensive. Yeah. And then they would use it in a
ball and then have it dry cleaned, and then return the return the dress
AZ
So would they buy, like down in Soho, they would get designer clothes
Anonymous
They would get either in Soho, depending on how much money they had, you
know, like you know, depending on where were they unfortunately, some of
them were street workers. So they would get money that way some of them
sold drugs, you know. So, a lot of lots of times I would also go to we would go
and go to different thrift shops and kind of put together these ensembles of
different clothes. Which weren’t bad, you know, you could find like really hot
clothes in a thrift store and still look still a good like I love thrift stores. And so
we would go and go to these different ball scenes and stuff. And it was it was
awesome
AZ
That's this is fascinating. Okay, so tell me more about the houses. Was it like
those shelters?
Anonymous
No, no, no, they were just like groups
AZ
They were just like social groups

�Anonymous
Yeah, they were just social groups. So you were associated like, you know
each house was known for different you know, they will have these you will go
to these balls. And they will be like, you know, like the top winners. You know,
they would kind of make their own houses. So they were like the best and in
their in you know, whatever category they were. And it was like, you know, I
want to call them almost like gay gangs. Yeah, you know, where you will
belong to a specific house right they have the house of ninja they have the
house of Pandora's, they have the house extravaganza. And, you know, there
was all these people that were part of it. Matter of fact, if you ever seen
Madonna's blonde Blonde Ambition tour, where she did the the whole voguing
thing there. And there's three gentlemen that she actually has in there that
were part of those houses and Madonna herself would actually sometimes
appear at these mini balls, you know, which sometimes would be held at, I
been to 2 of them one time that were held at the sound factory. Back then the
rumor was that Madonna actually owned the part of the sound factory Junior
Vasquez which was a famous DJ and still is used to DJ there. And she would
come and that's actually where she found some of her dancers from this from
this ball scene, and they would go now back then there was this whole
voguing kind of scene. You know which people were done in in the houses
AZ
Can you explain voguing?
Anonymous
Voguing is a dance style that originated I think originated out of the ball
scene. And it could be anything from like, like hand gestures to the way they
move, you know, the way they move their hands and they the way they would
pose. Voguing actually came out of there and then people would do these
moves these dance moves that were just kind of like voguing is a is a is I think

�a cross between dancing and posing. And it's kind of a little hard to explain it
where it's easier to see. Unfortunately, I'm butch so I don’t know how to vogue
voguing was more voguing was more you know, kind of like the gay guys
then. So I didn't unfortunately, I didn’t kind of I'm really bad at it. I tried the one
time terrible. But it was it was nice. Like, you know, I really think that that's
where my thing of fashion came from. You know, being around the gay young
people and everything, everything was about fashion. Everything was about
fashion like back then we used to call it used to be called labels. And there
was even a category for that you even walked for you walk down this runway
for you know, your category that you were walking for was called labels. And it
was about who had the best clothes on the most the most expensive clothes
or even you know the most of the time it kind of fell in the category of the
most expensive clothes or even the somebody would get a Louis Vuitton you
know shirt or something or Versace pants you know, I don't I'm not too sure
how big bootlegging was back then and they actually really weren't Yeah,
these designer these designer clothes but the most of the time they were you
know, but it was it was good. You know that actually from there I wanted to
actually apply for fashion industries High School. I was the only person in my
junior high school actually got accepted to fashion industries. I actually went
in for merchandising someone to design in I wanted to design like a Windows
like displays. And that that became also because a movie mannequin where
he you know, created these extravagant window displays. And I could always
remember a few of my friends going and just seeing you know, the Macy's
windows, Bloomingdale's, Windows, or even the way that display the way the
clothes are put together. Unfortunately, they work too well with me. I got into a
lot of fights
AZ
At the school itself?
Anonymous

�In fashion industries. Yeah. I think you know, because, because I'm
androgynous I used to always get, you know, are you a girl or are you a boy
and guys, of course, you know, didn’t like, the fact that I think that they didn't
know, or, you know, if they figured out I was a (barrow?) it was like, Oh, well,
you know, she's a lesbian, she Butch, you know, so that became a problem. So
my mom transferred me out of the school and kind of put me in my zone
school, which happened to be two blocks away, which was through a part of
high school
AZ
And this was in the Lower East Side
Anonymous
Yes, the Lower East Side. It was literally three blocks away from my house,
which sucks because I could never cut class without getting caught. And that
school was good. I remember being there. And I remember there used to be
this one young woman that stood out she kind of stood to herself. And to this
day, like I kinda see her but really, I know her because of who she is. You know,
in terms of knowing somebody from school, but not really kind of creating a
relationship with them. Her name was Lee, and she was like, she made me
look femme so much. Like she was like Butch all the way. And I can remember
like seeing her, like, get a lot of, you know, like a lot of shit in school. Because,
you know, sexuality and just the way she looked like she had her head shaved,
which, back then I guess really wasn't acceptable for young women, you
know. And she's got a lot of us and I used to feel so bad. And, you know, I used
to always want to kind of rate reach out, but I always felt, the whole safety
thing where I kind of didn't want to put myself in that position because I just
felt like I got a lot of shit for just looking where I was. And I didn't even have a
shaved head. And I didn't really be as butch she was, you know, they kind of
just associated with me being Butch because the way I dressed I didn't dress
feminine. I dressed in jeans, sneakers, you know t-shirt.

�AZ
What was your hair like?
Anonymous
My hair was short, kind of the way it is now. And then I like as fashion started
changing, I let my hair grow. I kind of had this Steven Seagal type haircut
going on with a, I had a ponytail that kind of grew back. And I think a lot of that
happened because my friend started growing her hair that way. And since we
were so tight, we kind of brought it the same the same way. And we we just
continued going in the village and I remember there was a prom. They had a
prom. Unfortunately, when I graduated high school, I couldn't attend my prom.
I mean, I could have but there was the whole thing on you know, being stared
at what was I going to wear? You know, like, can I go there wearing a tuxedo
and have to get shit about it? Or do I have to wear a dress?
AZ
Were there any official rules about it?
Anonymous
There wasn’t. I mean, I think that never really is because I don't think they can
enforce it
AZ
They do it in some states. But I don't know of any…
Anonymous
In terms of the girls having to dress?
AZ
Like a girl can’t go with a girl basically

�Anonymous
I don't think I was worried about bringing anybody. If I would have went I
probably would have went with my with my friend Josephine, which was my
best friend that used to make me date boys, who was kind of devastated
after she found out that I started you know, being with girls, and she used to
always taunt me with Madonna used to have the song, La Isla Bonita. And in
the song she talks about when a girl loves a boy and a boy loves a girl. So my
friend used to, you know, every time that part came, like emphasize it. She will
look at me and go when a girl loves a boy and a boy loves a girl.
AZ
After you came out to her?
Anonymous
After I came out. But um, she I think she was just doing that because she was
just teasing me. You know, like she was really cool I didn’t unlike, unlike most
people's experiences, and I'd say mine coming out was a little not kind of
lucky. But it wasn't that hard. My mom kind of found out because she read my
diary, which I actually left my diary in a car. And one of her friends found it
and gave it to her. So I was a little awkward
AZ
How old were you?
Anonymous
17 when she found out but I think you know mom's always know. Yeah, you
know, so. I don't put dresses. I don't put dresses on there nothing feminine
about me. You know, I don't bring guys home. You know, I never talk about
boyfriends. So, you know, she just kind of did her own little you know, when she
when I came in the house, she kind of just not threw it at me she kind of just

�like tossed it. And and I can remember when she tossed it because she she
made this comment like she said she said cheers to your night in heaven or
something, because unfortunately it was talked about my first sexual
experience in in the, in my diary. I was just kind of like frozen when she when
she said it and that was kind of the only thing she said after that, like we never
she never you know, we didn't sit down and talk about it. You know, it was just
kind of like that was a one little comment and life just kind of went on. Which I
don't know if it was a good thing, but it seemed to work itself now. Yeah. That's
the I think I got a little scattered there, timeline.
AZ
Tell me more about what when you were talking about the balls. You
mentioned what the boys wore. The girls I mean, were the girls involved with it
Anonymous
Yes, yes, the girls were and the girls it, I think what was funny is when the kind
of femme girls would go against the femme guys for the same category, you
know, because they had a girl realness and even femmes would walk for this
category, you know, competing against, like these very feminine gay boys.
And I think the funniest thing was when the boys used to win. Right? And the
same thing with like, see the, I think the whole bunch femme thing is is an
attitude, or I think I want to say attitude, you know, or kind of I think it's attitude
because I think I kind of, you know, put out this kind of very rough attitudes
sometimes, you know, not so much frail or even then ethical being
stereotypically feminine, women are frail as well.
AZ
No but feminine does usually imply frailty culturally. So there were say butch
women walking in these balls?
Anonymous

�Yeah we would walk like I would walk for boy realness. And I would sometimes
go against like you know the kind of like butch gay boys. You know and it was
almost the same thing like you know like here is a butch woman you know
winning this category you know that was kind of like actual like you are a boy
and you can’t win it like what’s up with that. And then after that it kind of faded
like you know the the butch boys after that didn’t really walk for realness they
kind of they kind of excuse me. A new category started coming out so then
they had like b boy realness. Or and b boy realness was all about you know a
straight boy passing as a I mean a gay boy walking this category trying to act
straight. Like he would act thug. You know so he would have the baggy
clothes on and you know the Tommy Hilfiger hoody you know the hat and he
would walk and try to pass as a straight boy. And it’s funny because he’s
walking for this category that he wins and then you see the gay boy kind of
come out and they it was just fun. Like the different then it started after a while
it started getting boring because like new categories and things started
coming out and then you know there started to be a lot of animosity amongst
you know people you know and then it started becoming a thing where
people then started fighting like you know you would go to a ball and I can
remember like towards the end when I stopped going like I went half the time
to kind of watch my friend’s back. Because it, a fight always broke out
AZ
Over who won?
Anonymous
Over who won or a disagreement about who won or you know it started
coming about you know like things that kinds you know fight about. Like oh
well you aint wearing real labels like your labels aint real. You know like your
wearing bootleg clothing. Or you know, because it was such a tight
community sometimes people would sleep at somebody else’s house and so
somebody would be accused of stealing articles of clothing from each other.

�You know so after that when people starting fighting over things it just didn’t
become fun anymore. You know it was just kinda like I don’t want to go see
what fight is gonna break out I want to go to have fun
AZ
So you know how gay men, they have their own style, the pants are tight, they
wear tight little shirts, was there ever a lesbian style that you could say was
analogous?
Anonymous
I would say it was probably the b boy style. Because it was all about us like
passing. In terms of butch like I could only talk about like femme girls wore
you know femme clothing they wore you know tight jeans tight shirts you
know occasionally they wore baggy clothes but they were still they still wore it
in a feminine way. You know they would still have makeup on they would wear
even the colours the colours were you know feminine colours pink colours you
know pastel powder blues and stuff. Where the butches wore you know we
wore the big sweatshirts with baseball caps on. We wore jeans you know
sneakers then you know timberlands started becoming a new thing so we
graduated to timberlands and for us it was just all about passing
AZ
So your intention was to look like a straight male?
Anonymous
Yeah were kinda like our intention was to to pass as much as possible but
still…
AZ
Can you define pass?

�Anonymous
Like right now if I wanted to I could get up and walk to the mens room If I
wanted to
AZ
Ok so passing
Anonymous
Passing is basically going through the day or going like being able to pass as
a male. You know so we would walk into a store and they would be like excuse
me sir. So we would be able to pass or being able to you know we would go
because women’s bathrooms always got lines like we would walk into the
mens bathroom and not hear anything about it. Like that’s passing like going
through life or going through everyday with you know just being thought
people just looking at you and assuming that you’re you know that you’re a
male
AZ
Right. And is that something that you want? Have you always wanted that?
Anonymous
I, I just always wanted to always kinda be me. Like I'm a very individual sort of
self like I don’t I don’t really like labels. Like I don’t like being categorized you
know like I like wearing what I like wearing what I like to wear you know. Right
now well my clothes are male kind of orientated you know I work for a urban
clothing company so a lot of my clothes is. I wear mens clothes because
womens clothes are tighter, I don’t like em at all
Alaina
Why?

�Anonymous
I mean on me. I think I’m built too much, I’m built too much like a guy to kind of
wear feminine clothes, I think if I put on feminine clothes I kind of look like
probably a drag queen so
AZ
So you feel uncomfortable in
Anonymous
Yes, even growing up I never liked to wear dresses. Now that I think about it
my mom made me wear a dress one time to, for picture day in elementary
school, and I cried all day. Because yeah at a young age I had I started
developing body hair so I had hairy legs you know I had hair on my arms and I
cried all day because she made me go to school in this dress with these little
socks on so my legs were exposed. And I was just like, it was never because
you know kids are cruel you know kids kids say you know people would look at
me and go oh you’re ugly look at your legs like you know I’d be called a beast
you know. And it was just I hated it it was so bad like they was really, it sucked
AZ
Yeah
Anonymous
It’s and then it’s crazy now that we’re talking like all these memories start
coming out and in in the same elementary school I was actually banned from
school unless I wore a dress every day to school. Because I was so active,
which was another thing and now that I think about it my mom could have
actually sued because I went to a public school I didn’t go to a private school
AZ
Did they have uniforms?

�Anonymous
No, we wore everyday clothes you know whatever like my mom you know I
had school clothes and I had play clothes. Obviously my play clothes were
probably a little stained and had holes in them and you know my my school
clothes were nicer and newer and they forbid me to wear regular clothes I
had to wear a dress. They told me they would not allow me back in school
unless I wore a dress because I was too active
AZ
Oh so they wanted to keep you from being active…
Anonymous
They thought that if they put me in a dress that it would keep me from running
around and jumping because they they thought that you know a little girls
they were like I was too active for a little girl. You know I didn’t act like the little
girls I was I would get into fights I was climbing I was always with the little
boys and never with the little girls. And they made me wear a dress everyday
which was another thing that I hated. Like I mean I kind of didn’t have a choice
you know my mom unfortunately I guess you know she didn’t know enough to
kind of protest it. And it was towards the end of the year so for probably like
the last two weeks of school you know I had to deal with it [inaudible] I hated
it
AZ
Its a creative answer to solution
Anonymous
Yeah
AZ

�So lets fast forward to now you work in the fashion industry. How many
lesbians are there? Are there …
Anonymous
At work because I work for urban clothing company and I’m talking about
urban talking about I work for Rocawear which is right up there with
[inaudible] and you know everybody knows Jay Z which is you know CEO of
Roc-A-Fella records. And unfortunately you, being gay in an urban society
you know what I mean is, not to say that it’s unheard of but you know you
hear even the lyrics you hear about you know people being you know you
can’t be gay. Basically in in urban society and it’s crazy because when I first
started working there I remember this woman who worked in [accounts
receivable?] department. And you could clearly tell she was a woman it was
nothing you know she didn’t look like butch or androgynous like can look at
her and say is that a woman or is that a man. But she wore pantsuits, not men
pantsuits, they have pantsuits for women she wore pantsuits. And I remember
that they used to call her a shim which I thought was once again excuse me
which I thought was fucked up
AZ
That’s like she him?
Anonymous
Yes and I used to always like I would like I would say one of the biggest
advantages of being androgynous is people always think you’re male. I could
put my ID card in front of anybody and as as much as it says female you
know you know they don’t look at that people you know sex is not a thing that
people actually pay attention to on a card on an identification.They’re kind of
always looking at either your name or your your date of birth. So when I
started working at Rocawear they just automatically assumed I was a guy.
You know and I needed a job and I actually got the job through a temp

�agency. So I kind of really didn’t, because it was a temp agency I didn’t think I
was actually gonna be there long. So I kind of didn’t correct anybody or make
a big thing about it and then even more after they I used to hear them say
this. And I asked I used to ask I said why do you call her a shim like why do you
call her that? And they used to be like look at her, look at the way she dresses
and I would be like what’s wrong with the way she dresses? Like she has a
pantsuit on it’s not a mens suit its a womans suit. And they used to be like you
know but just look at her shes you know shes shes she looks like a man. She
doesn’t look like a man, she’s a woman she’s wearing a pantsuit like what’s
the problem. And I would start getting into arguments but and then kind of
backed off to kind of not draw and I think the woman was was oblivious to it
because they would call her a shim to her face and should laugh and go
yeah I’m a shim. And I don’t think she kind of knew what they were saying
about her and then she would she would talk about that she had a boyfriend.
And of course they would all make fun of her and be like oh your full of shit
you know you got a boyfriend, which was like still once again messed up. And
so fortunately I didn’t realize it but I I then became full time.
At the time I worked when I first started at at Rocawear I worked in the internet
department. So I used to basically coordinate what you see on the website.
You know getting images together, coordinating photo shoots with the
clothes, customer service, basically everything. And they had another des
they brought in this new designer and I remember his name was David Ayala
he was a gay man and clearly gay flaming as hell. You know cool, you know
cool guy and people used to make fun of him. Like like you know they would
joke with him but of course always joke with him in like a homophobic way.
You know like they would say they would say stupid stuff like you know like
how was that dick last night or something like that. Like this is a urban like
thing so they didn’t give a shit like there was no biting their tongues there was
nothing you know like the office is clearly homophobic. Like people say they
don’t have a problem with it you know but you hear like the responses and the

�things that they say the snickering like underneath their breath. And he used
to get a lot of crap but I think he just used to joke it off he was probably
making a crapload of money for being for being a head designer
AZ
Right, yeah, sure
Anonymous
And then once again the company just grew you know and now I work I I
started about three years ago working for the internet department I was
working for the IT department. Because the internet they actually started
outsourcing to a company called E fashions, which also runs JLo site baby fat.
So I was actually going to be let go. And by the grace of God, I was saved by
my boss to come and work in the IT department because Rocawear then
started getting big started blowing up started becoming more popular. So
they needed more people. And from there we move to 1411 Broadway, which is
the fashion district that's the big building that got the if you’ve seen it’s got the
giant button.
AZ
Oh!
Anonymous
That's the building I work in. And so we expanded we actually used to be 463 7
Avenue, and it became bigger and then they moved to to 1411 Broadway and
staff started you know, more people production started getting bigger
designs got a bit bigger. And there are people that you could kind of I want to
say, you know, when you’re gay, you have gaydar, you kind of know, you know
who's or you suspect. And people just ridicule them like you could. I mean, I
always thought I always kept it to myself. And like you know I would say in my
head oh, she looks like shes gay and then they started this in so funny. I think

�nobody messed with him because he was he was a big guy, there was a
woven designer [move insurance?] or like these button up shirts. Yeah. And
his name was Lesley. And he was he was out. He was clearly out. He's gay.
Everything about him. Right. He talked, you could clearly tell as soon as he
talked to you, he was gay. And I think nobody said anything to him because I
think they were scared of him. You know.
AZ
Because he was physically.
Anonymous
He was physically big. You know, like, he was very muscular. He was a big,
muscular black guy. And he was Canadian. I didn't know that. But it kind of
quieted down a little bit, because I think people kind of curbed their tone
around him because he would look like he didn't. He was a person that you
would say something that he would just sit there and just, you know, what we
call read. Like, he would just read you. You know.
AZ
What does that mean?

Anonymous
Read is like a gay term in terms of is a gay word for like, telling you off.
AZ
Okay.
Anonymous
Like he would simply put his hand on his head. He would do the whole finger
gesture. And it's even funnier when you got this kind of big muscular guy.

�AZ
Yeah.
Anonymous
Like you know, like, scolding you, like, how you probably would see a younger,
you know, petite woman like scolding.
AZ
Yeah, yeah.
Anonymous
You know, somebody and I think he just scared the shit out of people. Yeah, I
was like, in the corner. But yes. You know, but, you know, it makes me sad
sometime that I can't be like, who I am there. You know, like, my biggest fear, I
think at work is people finding out. You know, and it's come like real close at
times. When people find it out.
AZ
Yeah
Anonymous
Because we have sample sales. Rokawear has these awesome sample sales.
I got your number I'll let you know. And I, they open it to the public from like,
the first hour. It's it's just employees, and then they open it to the public. And
there was this guy who I actually used to go out with his friend when I was
younger, when I was kind of going through my you know what am I phase
straight or or gay? And he comes to every sample sale.
AZ
Does he recognise you?

�Anonymous
I don't let him like I've came real close where I've I've gone in. And I've saw him
and I kind of timed real quick, before he didn't even see me. And it was funny
one time I went in to talk to Michelle, which is actually J sister, when she works
there, she's real cool. And I went in, I was like Michelle, and I said, Michelle, he
kind of like I, I saw him like a profile, like view of him and he went to turn. And
when I saw him, I did kind of like ran out of room. So Michelle was like
[redacted] what. And I'm like, nothing, I'll talk to you later.
AZ
That's amazing that you have to do that.
Anonymous
Like every sample, like one every time we have a sample sale I avoid, like
passing like the office is huge so I could kind of get to where I need to go
through any kind of like, I could just. Sometimes I have to literally walk around
the whole entire office to get to the stairs [inaudible]. Or I’ll leave and just take
the elevator up one floor, because we have two floors. So I'll take the elevator
to the next floor with my office is or cubicle. And just to avoid, just to avoid. It's,
it's really crazy.
AZ
That is something else, yeah. To me, it's like New York City this day.
Anonymous
But I mean, once again, I work in, I work in a urban culture where, you know, it's
really not acceptable to be to be gay or lesbian. And then all the women in
my office are kind of like, you know, there are some attractive women. So of
course, if you're don't look like the typical woman, you know, you're that oddity,
you know, so it just, you know, sometimes I think, you know, I shouldn't be here,

�and all like that that's not fair. To myself. Like, I feel like sometimes I'm not
being true to myself, because I kind of lead this double life. You know, but
unfortunately, I found a career that I really liked. And I made a lot of contacts, I
kind of put it to the side, you know, so I could make more women get that 30%
off for wholesalers.
AZ
So how are you doing? Are you getting tired?
Anonymous
No, I am good. You tired? Break or Anything?

AZ
No, I have so many questions. I don't know how much contact you had with
the rest of the fashion industry. But do you think that other places in fashion
would be as bad?
Anonymous
As long as they're not urban, I don't think they are. I think it's only the urban,
like, clothing companies that we you you kind of fall into that. You know, that
where its just not acceptable. Like, you could probably like I'm pretty sure in
every in I'm pretty sure there are gay people in Rockafella records that are
putting their gay people in Sean John, you know, even even in the in the other
clothing companies like Echo. Probably [Nietzsche?], you know, there are there
people everywhere, but I just think that it's just, I feel bad. I feel like if they could
be who they are, and be openly gay at the job like I commend them. Like and,
you know, I think it's, I think it's different for men than it is for women. I think the
men because you think about fashion, sometimes you think, you know, if a
guy's a designer, he's gay. They used to, you know, like, he's a designer, he's
gay. So it's kinda like, you know, they already fall in that category. And, you

�know, their stereotypes, I say, into that category. So, but I think when it's a
woman, it's still like, I think if it's, if she's femme, you know, she kind of just
passes, you know, but if you're Butch, then you're hit with that whole oh you
want to be a man or you haven't had a guy to give it to correct or, or
something like you’re just considered like, odder than odd. You know, I mean,
like, you're just worse than that gay designer. But we could deal with him. He's
gay. We know. He's a designer, you know, but you're there's something wrong
with you.
AZ
Yeah.
Anonymous
So but I think they're I think, you know, I think there are gay and lesbian in
every single aspect of you know, in fashion. I mean regardless in urban, I think
they’re everywhere.
AZ
You just don’t know who they are.
Anonymous
No, I wish they did. I wish I did. You know, like, if I could go to a company where
I know that there were probably other gay and lesbian people that were out
like I would in a heartbeat.
AZ
My boss is Lesbian actually. And her partner was the also the business
partner. But that's besides the point. And actually, I think you've hit everything.
Is there anything else you want to talk about?
Anonymous

�Is there anything else you wanna know?
AZ
Let me see. Not really, let’s end there. Okay. Thank you very much. This has
been an excellent interview.

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                    <text>Alaina Zulli
Okay, this is Alaina Zulli interviewing Fumio Ichikawa on June 4 2007, in the
Barney building of NYU. Okay, Fumio, start by going over your background. Tell
me about where you were born when, etcetera.
Fumio Ichikawa
Okay, I was born in 1968, in a small town in Kanagawa, which is a prefecture
next to Tokyo. My parents were both from that region. And they lived in Tokyo
at the time. But traditionally women go home to their parents to give birth so I
was staying with my grandparents when I was born. It's an interesting story
that my great grandfather passed away two weeks before I was born. It was a
natural death, he went to sleep, he had a habit of taking a nap in the
afternoon, by the sunny spot on by the window. And in one day, he didn't
come back after the sunset. So my father was [unintelligible] my mother, and
it's in my maternal grandparents home. And my father went away, got my
great grandfather, and he never woke up.
So he, my father was actually the first one who discovered my great
grandfather passing and it was almost like exactly two weeks before I was
born. And you know, depending on what you believe in, but in some of the
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life to the next life, and in between, that's just about the time where you're
supposed to be crossing over this lever that separates this world to the next
one, wherever that may be. And they may be, you know, he may never have
left, he may have stayed with me. And so they decided to take residence in
my mother's room. And the reason why I mentioned that is my great
grandfather actually wanted to come here to the United States. He was a fifth
son of a very large family, and because of the primogeniture, the oldest son
takes over the family business in the land. So he wanted to get a strike a
fortune outside, so he actually got on the ship, heading over to the United
States. I think he made it over to Hawaii, then that's when he found out that his

�older brother passed away, and he had to go back. So he never made it to
mainland. But his plan was to come to the United States, make a lot of money,
go home successful. It's quite didn't happen. But he did make it to the uh, to
Hawaii.
So my family came here when I was 17 because of my father's job. Everybody
left but me after my father's assignment, and they went back, I stayed behind.
And I have a feeling. I never thought of it that way earlier. But now that I think
about it, I think it's my great grandfather making me stay. So that's one of the
family or the personal, that I have about me being here. So I grew up in a
suburb of Tokyo. It's within Tokyo prefecture, but it's one of the new
developments in the 70s. There was a lot of urban growth, but not affordable
housing in central Tokyo. So there was planned housing projects, all over
suburbs, in the countryside there was nobody. So I grew up among people
from all over Japan. People, their parents came on in the job assignment, they
came for higher education and stayed, or they're transient, you know, moving
from different city to city. But it was an interesting environment. Nobody was
from there. Anybody sort of came there, anybody lived there. But so many
different dialects, so many different cultures. During the summer vacation, the
town emptied out, because everybody went back home where their
grandparents were from or their parents are from.
So it was a very interesting time that everybody knew each other and their
parents and nothing beyond. You came there with like no baggage, no family
history, just you. So there was no sense of like, insiders, outsiders and also the
kind of what we call village mentalities that a lot of people associate with the
Japanese, where you're closed in, which is basically everybody knows
everybody's parents, cousins, you know, who knew who we didn't have that
growing up. We didn't have natives versus outsiders. We, our class sized up
from like 15, starting on the beginning of the year, by the time we move to the

�next grade, we had 30. So that was the norm, which is very unusual in most of
Japan.
AZ
The growth you mean?
FI
Well, just in terms of the, the growth as well as sort of the mobility of people is
quite unusual. So when I compare my experience to my cousins who grew up
closer to my grandparents is very, very different thing, where they grew up
with all kinds of history, like, even before they go to school, everybody knows
you. Because both my grandparents were teachers. So all the teachers from
your school, the next school over, the parents, they knew who you are before
coming in. Whereas where I, me and my sister grew up, it's just you. And, you
know, you get to know other people's parents through the kids of, the
connection were the children, not necessarily the kind of kinship or the
location or sort of family history that you brought. So that was unique, I think.
So that gave me a different perspective from a lot of people who grew up, so
tied to the land and the community and family history. So that was really
interesting and fun place to grow up. And then my father was transferred
here, when I was when I was 16. We didn't come here until the year later,
because my sister really, really, really wanted to graduate from junior high
school before coming here. I was happy to leave Japan, my mother and my
sister weren't. They were so afraid of going to places where they don't speak
the language, they don't have any friends, all kinds of anxieties. I was ready to
leave, I was not happy where I was. Because of many different things, but um,
and also, I had a very different image of the United States being a more
individualistic, freedom, creativity, democracy that a lot compared to sort of
Japan in the 80s, where things were very structured, what seemed very
structured.

�AZ
Even in your area?
FI
Yeah, well, it was because of the national sort of, um, it was a time of
economic growth. And there was an expectation that the parents wanted
their children to do better. And there was a very specific and clear path to do
better. Higher education was the key, and there are school [unintelligible] and
it was very clear that which colleges or university you went to connected you
to the types of opportunities you had after graduation, it's a lot more
systematic than here. Really, here, it's more sort of implicit, in sort of class and
networking aspect of it. In Japan, once you get to a particular school, the
network is there for you. It doesn't matter where you come from, you get
plugged in, so everybody understood that. And everybody sort of aspired to
that.
And also, there was a shift from highly urbanized economy and society
around that time, like market economy. And global economy impacting a lot
in terms of how Japan was shaping up to be very much urban centered
society. Transition from like the more, more small towns, villages, and diversity
of that, too, everybody aspires to be the city dweller with the latest and
greatest. So I think it was a time of convergence of many different influences,
defining very clear a singular idea of what's successful. And [unintelligible,
laughter].
Yeah, part of the reason is, you go through entrance examination after you
graduate from junior high. I mean, some wealthier kids go through that earlier
but for most, you know, kids, that's sort of the first rite of passage on age 15.
After you graduate from junior high, you choose a high school to go to, you
decide if you can go to public schools, private schools, you stay close to

�home, or you travel. There aren't really that many boarding schools. So it's
really I think, you take the train to commute, an hour and a half versus staying
that's the school that's close to the home, maybe, [unintelligible]. So not but,
that's sort of the first time you get filtered into different groups based on,
supposed to be based on academic performance, but there's a lot more to it
than that.
And when I got to high school, it was a very different world because we mixed
with, well, that was my first encounter with people outside of my community,
which were very, very – It was weird. I go to a new community, it's a lot more
homogeneous than the diversity that I was so used to in terms of people's
expectations. The, the weird thing about where I grew up is economically very
homogeneous, because of the housing project, housing prices, rental system.
I guess there'll be equivalent to coops here, determined in the your parents
income level, right? Like where you live and the community we lived in was
based on the fact that everybody could afford to live in the same housing
project.
AZ
And it was middle class?
FI
It was really like the middle class back then, in Japan, versus what we think of
middle class here, versus what we think of middle class in Japan, now are
completely different thing. It was sort of for the the economic bubble of the
nine, early 90s. So it's, it's a working community, mostly, like white collar, mix of
white collar office workers, some professionals, teachers, you know, a lot of
school teachers, office workers, but not like senior management. It's sort of,
you know, middle to lower. And also, generationally they were still young, so
and they were on the path to becoming middle managers, and senior
managers but not quite there yet.

�So, culturally, we were very diverse but economically we were very
homogeneous. And then, when I went to high school, we get thrown into the
places where economically, it's very, very diverse. That was the first time I
actually met somebody whose parents own like sushi restaurant, you know
like the small business owners, the shop owners. We weren't, I wasn't used to
that, I'm used to dealing with, you know, teachers, office workers, people who
commute to work. Versus you having business at home, and you sort of grew
up in an environment that was very different. But at the same time, it was
very, I mean, I think it's the same, high school everywhere, it was very cliquey.
And um, I didn't quite fit into, both the cliques, and also sort of the culture at
the time. That was really, um. It's gonna be like the long history of the 60s, the
80s. But it was a time of very conservative period, a lot of the people who were
student radicals in the 60s, late 60s, early 70s, sold out and became an office
worker, and they're sort of, you know, telling the children that you have to
study really hard, you know, go to the good school, get a good job, work for
major corporations and your life will be successful and stable. And I knew
those are the same people who burned down the campus and didn't have a
graduation because they were against what was going on in Vietnam, what
was going on with the uh, the treaty between the United States and in Japan
the Security Treaty. They were against the nuclear war and whatnot in the 60s,
and it's the same people telling us, "no, this is the way to happiness."
So I was really frustrated with the fact that I'd have to sort of stay within that
scheme of things. And I wasn't creative enough, I wasn't talented enough to
just say, Forget you, I'm going to do my own thing. So I was reasonably smart
enough to do well enough in academic performances. That was like what I
was good at, but I didn't really like that, that was the only thing... and what you
get at the end. And also the fact that there was a vague understanding and
expectation that even if I do as well as the boys, you know, I can score as high

�on exams, but there will be other "attributes," and in quotation marks,
attributes that teachers would add to the application process, that would not
necessarily disadvantage me in terms of going to college itself. But at the end
of the process, that, that that sort of is not going to matter less than the fact
that I'm a girl. Which, unbeknownst to me drastically changes in the four to
seven years that I'm going to be away. But that was the understanding then,
before I left.
AZ
So, you're saying that it was harder for girls to get into college?
FI
No, cause, not, cause examination process was fairly straightforward. You
take the exam, you pass you get in. There weren't any slot based on gender.
But to get the high school, especially public high schools. There was a little bit
of a backlash on heavy reliance on testing, academic testing. So a few years
before I – well maybe, when I was in junior high school, the government
decided, well the Tokyo government decided to add a few extra, um, weight to
like art, music, Home Economics, and, what's the last one... physical education.
We had nine subjects, four, those four sort of more based on, you know,
academic talent, and we have like five different subjects, Japanese, English,
math, science and social science, before you take the exam in five subjects, if
you score high you get in. After the reform, you have to carry the score, the uh,
your grades from your school. But your four subject is going to be weighed a
lot heavier than your academic subject. So before you go take the exam, you
also need to have schools that you can apply to predetermined by how well
you do in your school, including those four non academic subject, which is
very subjective in terms of either getting these categories versus taking the
exam and scoring 100 on the academic side of it.

�So and it's it was fairly common that if you had the same score, and if you're
sort of borderline between the A line schools versus the B line schools that the
teachers get a little bit of an edge to the boys. And also, the expectation is
that a lot of the women would go to junior college as opposed to the four year
college, work a few years and, and get married. So the aspiration, it's not
necessarily that it was structural barriers to get into four year college. But the
aspirational pattern was very different for boys and girls. It wasn't that case
with my family, the expectation with my parents always like to go to the four
year school. And I think, looking back, my father never said that I couldn't do
something because I was a girl. And I think I owe that to my paternal
grandmother. But it was a shock to me when I was talking to my classmates
in high school that your parents actually told you that you know, these are
girly, girly, like things or things that women are not supposed to think about or
wish for. I mean, it's a very stereotypical view of the Japanese society. But it
was true to some extent, especially with the small business owners more than
professional families. But even then, most of the mothers are stay at home or
work part time, but there aren't many professions that women can stay after
they get to a certain age or they get married and have families. So it was
mostly teachers, nurses, very few office workers, or professional.
So that was sort of the environment I was in and I was also not happy with the
way everything is weighed the same. You could be really good at one subject,
and equally suck on another subject. And that will bring your whole average
down instead of you know, you sort of developing what you're good at. And
sort of keeping up with what you're not so good at but passing, and still be
able to go to a place where what you're good at, and what reflects your
curiosity and desire to fulfill. Like, everything has to be sort of average
downwards, to where you're not good at. And I had this whole image of the
United States being different, that you can actually develop your own
personal sort of strength. So, and also, like sort of gave me a way out of being
ordinary, you know, going to New York. And then everyone is like, woah you're

�going to New York. So it just, you know, automatically, you did, I didn't have to
do anything, just by the virtue of my father being transferred, I'm somebody
special, which was a nice feeling as an average kid.
So that brings us to 1986. Spring of 1986. So we waited until my sister
graduated from junior high school, got here in April. Not a good idea because
academic is about to end and then nobody wanted to put us into uh, into
school. Because they were about to, it was about the time now in New York
State, and I don't know how familiar you are with the New York state education
system, but they have a regions exam. And it, all the teachers are concerned
about getting anybody passing the exam And because we didn't speak
English all that well. And because some of the bilingual students are their star
students, they didn't want their students, their star students sort of being
distracted by babysitting basically. So I started school in Long Island in the ESL
classes, most of the subjects except math, because math, you know, you don't
need language. And the math teacher in that class I really hated,
[unintelligible] because she thought I was going to drag her star student
down. After we take the exam, for me, it was like high school entrance exam, I
thought it was a joke. I didn't think it was 11th graders. So once they saw the
score, just, you know, complete turnaround. You know, teachers, teachers look
at me, and math was my worst subject.
AZ
You're worst subject? Okay.
FI
So it was, it was an interesting experience. But for a few years after that,
because of my limitation in understanding spoken English, everybody treated
me like I was five years old. That was the vocabulary and the range of
expression that I had. So it's not easy being a teenager in Long Island around
that time. But on top of that, there was the struggle of having a 17 year old

�brain stuck behind the vocabulary of five year old. Yeah, so my high school
days are pretty much confined to hanging out with other kids from ESL. But the
other kids in ESL classes from all over the world, which was great, in one way.
But at the same time, there's definitely a divide between what we would call
the regular class students and the ESL students. And gradually you move on
to, you move over as your English gets a little better. And also, you start to
take classes. And for us, most of the Japanese kids, we are really well trained
to read and write. And, you know, we take homework seriously, we try to keep
up. So in terms of trying to get up to speed in being able to participate in
regular classes, wasn't that big a deal, like, we just need a little bit of time to
get used to it. And spend extra time between classes or at home to try to do
as much preparation as possible so that we'll be prepared to go into class.
And even if we don't understand what the teacher is telling us, we've read the
textbook. So we know what to, you know, we have a little bit of comfort level in
trying to figure out what the teacher is saying, as opposed to the teacher
teaching us history. It's more like we try, us trying to figure out what we read in
the history book, and where the teacher is in explaining that to us. So in the,
the book knowledge, and you look up the dictionaries and you tried to get that
in your head before going to class.
AZ
It's a lot of work.
FI
Yeah, but you know, that's the only way, that's, that's what schooling is. So it
was more you know, trying to bring your English up to the level where you
understood spoken English and listening at the level of your understanding of
the written English. So, by the time I graduated, I was taking most classes in
regular class with ninth graders, 10th graders, not necessarily twelth graders.
But but at the same time, I still spent a lot of time in this one sort of class that
was dedicated to ESL students and their volunteers helping them with

�homework. So I think I picked up more Spanish language than you know,
English in this time, and now it's fun. And it was also an interesting experience
seeing people from very different backgrounds and very different
expectations about what a 17 year old is supposed to be and how much
responsibility you have, either because you're in immigrant, and you're the
one who has to take care of a lot of things for them, you know, for your
parents. Then some of the roles that sort of, that happens because you are
the one who understands English the most. Even if my English is limited, it's
much better than my mother's. So you know, anything that goes wrong, I have
to call and trying to figure out what the right people to call, is this an
emergency or is this a normal thing? Or you know, if you have parents teacher
conference, I have to interpret what the teacher is saying to my parents and
then interpret backwards with my limited English. So a lot of the relationship
between parents being the guide and protective influence versus children
being sort of shielded from dealing with all the everyday things, it reverses at
that point. And you sort of become the grown up, you sort of become the
public face of the family. So that was, that was interesting, too.
So that was sort of a transitional period where my language skill was very,
very limited. But at the same time, I had to make the most of it. And I couldn't
really shy away from it, because that was my responsibility for the entire
family. Because I mean, my father was using English somewhat at work. But
he wasn't there, most of the time he was at work. So I have to get the driver's
license quickly so we can go grocery shopping, instead of waiting for
weekend. Or just to you know, drive people around. So a lot of things,
housekeeping, things that I had to learn to try to do it quicker. And it was
different from what I was used to. It's not that I didn't do that at all in Tokyo
when I was growing up, but it was a lot easier for kids to do. I could get around
on bicycles anywhere. Whereas here, especially so at first, you have to have a
car to get around.

�AZ
Yeah. So where in Long Island did you move to?
FI
Fort Washington.
AZ
Okay, I lived out on the North Fork, But it was not quite suburban.
FI
Yeah, well, the reason why my parents, my father picked Fort Washington was
because it's at the end of that Long Island Railroad he used to commute. So
he learned that when he was younger that because of the community, Tokyo
is notorious for being packed and very uncomfortable, he always wanted to
find a place at the end of the line, and he would stand, and get a seat, like,
you know, like half an hour earlier, let a couple of trains pass and you can get
a seat and take that in, all the way through, and you thought it was going to
be a thing here. So pick the thing. And also the fact that they had a very good
ESL program. So looking back, it was a beautiful place, but not having a way to
get around was very very difficult. So I spent a lot of time taking the train to
come into the city, you know, go into The Village. And you know, how life was
in The Village was so different from how it was in like the malls in Long Island.
AZ
Yeah.
FI
That's, you know, that's what I did. And then I went to school in the city. So I
moved out of the house, I lived in a dorm.
AZ

�College?
FI
Yeah. I went to Barnard for four years. So that was the first time living away
from home, and also living 24 hours in English, which was very very stressful.
By the time I graduated high school, I was fairly competent at school,
because of the fact that you can actually prepare for school, right? You know
what to expect. And you can interact with the teachers within the classroom.
Social life was different. But you know, you could get by feeling that you
understand what's going on with living in a dorm, most of the interaction,
most of the critical interaction is outside of the classroom. And really just
learning how to explain things like real day to day, in a way, whereas if you're
tired, the different kinds of tiredness or just, it's a lot more about explaining
how you feel than a subject matter that you know what you don't. And that
was a very different experience. At the first it was very, very stressful, that I
didn't have a break from that. The fortunate thing is that Columbia had an
amazing Japanese English Library. So I spend a lot of time in the library
reading the books that I like, but at the same time, that's sort of like a little bit
of space I have, because of the fact that I have spent, it takes a lot longer for
me to digest textbooks than my classmates, so it was really nice to be living in
a dorm so that you can spend, really spend a lot of hours studying, preparing
for it, spend time in the library. But at the same time, just not having that sort
of break in coming home and being comfortable in my own language was
difficult for six months.
AZ
Yeah.
FI
But then also you make new friendships, you gain different friends. The first
year, all my friends were children of immigrants. They're the first generation
Americans or they immigrated when they were very, very small. So it was

�fortunate that they understand the fact that your limitation on language
doesn't necessarily mean that you're stupid, which is a big, big, big help, in
terms of communicating because they never talk down to you. They may
repeat themselves, but they'll never like talk down to you and slow it down, like
you're talking to a child because they understand that's not the case. I mean,
some people did do that, thinking that's helpful and it is in a way. But it's also
at the same time very, very insulting. But I couldn't say that at the time,
because I could tell that the person on the other side meant well. And it's
much later in my life that I learned the expression, the road to hell is paved
with good intentions. And when I heard that I'm like, I know exactly what that
means. So, so I spent four years at Barnard and spent also six months in
London, in my journey. I really liked school, I really liked college. But at the
same time, I wasn't sure if I wanted to stay in the United States after I
graduated. That was around the time when Japan was doing very, very, very
well, economically. And there were a lot of opportunities for students returning
from overseas being bilingual. I had a very hard time understanding
Americans.
AZ
Americans?
FI
And I realized now that it's not the Americans in general, but it's northerners,
people in the North urban, people who seems very nice, very friendly, but they
don't really mean it.
AZ
So you mean you have trouble understanding them?
FI
In terms of the social distance, not necessarily the language itself. And I
always would sort of attribute it to like, well, maybe I didn't understand what
what the person was saying. I misunderstood what the person was saying. But
I didn't relate [inaudible]. And no, it's that's just the way they are. They say
things they don't mean. And I had a lot of that in college in social situations,
especially the barrier part. So even though my language skill was getting

�better, and I began to understand a lot more about my surroundings, I wasn't
quite comfortable. And I wasn't sure if I wanted to live in the United States. At
the same time, I didn't know I wanted to go back to Japan yet. I knew it was
much better than I expected at the time, in terms of the opportunities that you
have, and also the professional chances for women in general. At that time, it
seems to be so much with economic boom that they actually the first time in
the history they had equal employment opportunity legislation encouraging
employers to hire or give equal opportunities men and women. There was no
enforcement, there was no quote, there was no measurement of
achievement or compliance with that. The law is symbolic, but because of the
economic reality of companies looking for well educated workers, it was
actually happening. So I knew that that was a possibility that I could actually
find a professional opportunities in get real job and that I could stay and
expect, you know, being expected to stay not just, you know, work for a couple
of years and, you know, get married and move on. But at the same time, I felt
like, well, I spent a few years here. I sort of know, New York in the United States.
But when I go back, I'll probably lose a lot of what I learn, probably lose my
language skills. And I didn't feel like I gained something solid enough to take
back and not lose all the things that I worked so hard for. So I wasn't I really
wasn't sure what I wanted to do after I graduate. So in my third year of school,
I decided, well, maybe there's another way. Maybe it doesn't have to be Japan
or the US. So did some research and found that there is some kind of, it's not
an official program, but at least the reciprocal agreement that the bond that
will recognize the credit from the University of London.
AZ
okay, yes.
FI
So I decided to go to the School of Oriental and African Studies at University of
London for six months. The reason why did that for the springtime is that
British system is similar to what, Japan copied the British system, so they have
the trimester. If you go in Spain, you get to do second trimester and the third.
So I figured you get more out of spending a semester away by taking two
instead of going in the fall was just the first time. Also at the time I really was
into British music and culture. Well, not food, but you know, fashion everything.

�AZ
Yeah.
FI
Okay, I'm gonna go to London. So I spent six months in London, thinking that
the school life is similar there. So first, I live on campus housing, there was no
such thing. There was no campus, I saw there was only one building. There
was more like the NYU back in the day. Well, even here now, like you have
different schools. University in London have like different schools, but over all
around downtown, some of the more mainstream colleges, like King's College,
I think had a dorm nearby. But SOAS didn't have anything. They had a whole
bunch of flats in North London, about 45 minutes on the tube. That's when, at I
first I looked for a room share and you know, posted in a student's office and
went on on a few places. And honestly, this is not working, way too many
creepy people. And it wasn't nearly a room, share. It was just like the corner,
you know, one side of the flat you have it [inaudible] on the floor. And then like,
that's your room and let's say 500 quid a month [inaudible]. So I wanted to
keep it to the same level as like what my father was paying for the dorm here,
which was expensive, too, but didn't want to cost him any more than he was
spending already. So, so North London is where I spent six months among a
whole bunch of students from Middle East. That was my first time I actually
got to talk to somebody from Lebanon, Kuwait. And a lot of Arabs living in,
coming from Africa, actually. Some of them actually lived in Africa. Yeah, I
think there are some Syrians, mostly Lebanese and Kuwaitis that I met and an
American who wanted to go to Africa, but they were the place he was going
to go to just adapted into a civil Civil War, so he couldn't go so he decided to
come to London because he already took time off from school. He couldn't go
back. An Antiguan American, I don't know why he was–he wasn't in the same
school, but he was friends with the American kid. A South African born Indian
living in, coming from a suburb of London. A whole bunch happened so I met
a lot of Asians there, Asians in London at the time were South Asia and I'm East
Asian but we were more Orientals than Asians.
AZ
What year is it?

�FI
The 90s. Early 90s. And that's what I learned when I went to SOAS. I realized like
the why SOAS was next to the School of Tropical Disease. It's a school for
Colonial bureaucrats and administrators. So you go study the language at
SOAS, so you learn in African, East Asian, all the the colonial footprints that the
British Empire had. At SOAS you go to School of Tropical Disease to get
immunized and then you're off. Yeah, we were like nifty school of Tropical
Disease.
AZ
Interesting.
FI
It was fun. It was interesting. But so you definitely saw the legacy of
colonialism there that a lot of the students there were from former colonies,
and also Middle East where [inaudible] gets educated outside of their own
countries. Yeah, Dutch guys, and then also the European Union, they didn't
charge tuition, if you're with the European Union, that they have list, you didn't
have to pay tuition for universities. So I mean, they love foreign students,
because that's where they got, they get to charge tuition. So there are a lot of
language students from Asia, particularly from Japan, just come to the
London School. A lot of Americans on study abroad program. Well, not a lot at
SOAS but a few, and people from all over. So it was interesting living with
South Asians, and especially Middle Eastern friends, because that's the time of
the first Gulf War. I was there when it started, it was very, very interesting,
watching it on TV, on British television, among the Arabs talking about a very,
very different perspective, and take on what's happening, or what it means.
And that was my first experience for war as well. That was the first, Imean, I
grew up in postwar Japan. And we're like, no army, no weapon, we don't
engage. And we are not allowed to engage in that. And we don't want to live
with the mistake of the World War II. So even though in Britain, you know, they
had the Falklands, so they this sort of have modern conflict. For me, it was a
first experience of knowing that somebody that I know may actually go to war.
And, but I knew so little that I actually call back to my friend's home and say,
are you going to be drafted do you have to go to war? Because that was the

�image that I had. And once you know, country engages in the war, you get
drafted and you go to war, but no, it's a volunteer army, that doesn't happen
until they get really desperate. So, you know, like college age kids, I thought,
like, there'll be the prime candidate to get shipped off. But that didn't happen.
So it was really good to see that, especially, you know, looking at what's
happening now and how it gets broadcasted here. The whole controversy
with the friendly fire now is the first Gulf War most of the British casualties
were killed by the Americans. And also it was very, very tense going to school,
because we had a very large concentration of Middle Eastern students. So we
used to joke about it, we should just start, we were joking and we would say,
like we should go to a really expensive restaurant, you know, eat whatever we
want. Leave a big, you know, duffel bag on the seat and just run away. Say no,
we're all extremely students and trying to save money. Yes, really good
[inaudible]. So, you know, we had enough sense to talk about it, but at the
same time was a very tense time on campus with all the newscasts that
descended and tried to ask opinions of the Arabs on what's going on. And so I
really actually did like living in London.
AZ
You did?
FI
Even though I didn't like living in North London and having to take the two,
three songs into the city. But culturally speaking, I had a much better, easier
time understanding the social distance of the English than the Americans.
Even though I didn't understand a lot of the words that they were saying a lot
of the accent that they had, I understood what they meant, versus what is the
distance between, it's very, very similar to what I grew up with.
AZ
Can you describe that difference?
FI
For Japanese, what we say and what we mean are two separate things and
there's an understanding of that, depending on the context, depending on the
relationship, depending on the situation, we say certain things, but you need

�to read between the lines. There's a conventional expression and
understanding of the personal distance, that you may extend something to
somebody, but depending on your relationship with that person, the other
person would understand that if it's a real invitation, or if that person is being
polite to you.
AZ
So it's very nuanced?
FI
Yea, yeah, and it's a lot more. The conversation had a lot to do, a lot more to
do with the relationship with each other. It's never, and also sort of social
hierarchy. So the politeness of, I think the politeness of it, the degree of
politeness that the British or the I should say English displayed to each other,
in the context that I understood was a lot more similar. So, the relationship
between teachers and students, it was a lot, the distance between the two, I
feel a lot more comfortable in the, in the UK university system than in the
United States, where there are still professors pretend to be your peers. I was
uncomfortable with that. I mean, there's definitely power relationships, but
they try not to acknowledge that a lot of the times in the United States.
Especially with older people, younger people, older people try to, they try too
hard to be cool. In the US, they try so really hard to be young or understanding
of the youth. Whereas in Britain, there's no pretense like, if you are of certain
age, you're supposed to behave a certain way. And that's okay, that's, you
know, that's not a reflection of you not being cool. So I think that yeah, I think
the value of the definition and the value that you place on a certain
characteristic isn't in definition, based on social standings, age, all these other
attributes, I had an easier time understanding. It's not that I liked it or not, I
mean, it's very structured. And sometimes it prepared me it makes it difficult
for real friendship to develop, if your understanding is so different. But also at
the same time, if it does happen, it makes it more meaningful. Which has
been my experience with some of my friends back home who are of my
father's generation. But it was just was easier distance. And there was less
disappointment in terms of what the other person extend to you versus what
you understood the closeness be or the friendliness. So I really liked living
there, and I wanted to stay there longer, but I wasn't sure of the job aspect. But

�graduate school definitely, like I was thinking that's a possibility. And because
of the fact that, SOAS especially, emphasize a lot more of getting a language
to the native level before you move on to graduate study. To me, it was it was
a must, you have to be able to leave things in primary language, and do
research in primary source to do your undergraduate thesis.
AZ
Undergraduate?
FI
Yes. So I was sitting in the class, undergraduate class, reading modern
Japanese from 1890s, which is a very difficult Japanese for us natives, we had
one too, but I was sitting there discussing what, or reading untranslated work,
so it was easier for me.
AZ
Right.
FI
[inaudible] but in that was the expectation. So in the US, I could take
Japanese language classes, but everybody discussing the work that I'm
familiar with, reading it in English and discussing in English. So I mean,
discussing in English was fine, but just the fact of having to read it in English
and looking at weird translations was different. So, so I came back with the
sort of sense of okay, maybe that was the place culturally speaking, except for
the fact that it was very hard for, I mean, it was really hard for anybody to get
a job in the UK at the time. But that's a really no, I mean, I can go on for that
was my first like, 20 years of my life and I can go for the next 17 years, but you
might want to skip ahead or?
AZ
Let's move on to your sexuality.
FI
Okay.

�AZ
You identify as–
FI
Lesbian.
AZ
Lesbian. Tell me about when you came out. Actually, go back to when you
knew.
FI
I always knew actually, I always knew when I was growing up. But in Japan,
teenage homosexuality for girls was sort of almost expected, you know, you
sort of practice, you wanted a real thing. So everybody joked about it
everybody knew girls used to give me you know, flowers or not flowers, but
even make me lunch, make me things. On Valentine's Day in Japan, it's a big
commercial conspiracy. But the candy companies came up with this idea
and came up with some legend somewhere in Europe that that's the day the
girls can actually get to convince the boys what they feel, how they feel about
it, unlike, you know the girls are supposed to wait and not really be
forthcoming. That's one day of the year, you can be in, you know, in charge of
expressing your opinions. And it was universally understood that I'm going to
be on the receiving, I'm going to be on the receiving end on that day instead
of giving. But I always knew, but I always knew I was much after the girls, but it
was, but it was different from sexuality, because the idea of sexuality was very
much a grown up thing. So the part about the sort of orientation part of your
emotional attachment, like your attraction was fairly clear. But that didn't get
connected to the actual sexuality part of it at a much, much, much later.
AZ
By you or by your culture?
FI
By me, I think. I mean, like some of the girls, I think it's a lot different now.
Things change so much, and a lot more young people know about sex and
sexuality much younger. But when I was growing up, I don't think we really

�talked about it in junior high school. I mean like, we talked about dating, like,
you know, having crushes on boys and things like that. But it was more like,
well I want to, you know, like spend time with them, get close to them, hold
hands with them, to that extent. I think kissing came into play maybe in high
school, but it was still like whoa, big deal, then. Because even though we didn't
call it school, the boys worlds and girls world was segregated. It was sort of
implicit. And also, like crossing over got so much backlash from your group
and got a reputation that's like, oh you really like boys kind of thing. So even in
the co-ed school, that was the context. So a lot of the girls who had the
practice one with the girls that they did, like, a close relationship and in girls
was a lot more explicit on Valentine's, and then that was completely
acceptable.
AZ
Was it talked about?
FI
Yeah, everybody knew, I mean, like parent's kids. You know, my straight friends
who went to Catholic High School, she had long hair very feminine, but she
got letters, candies from underclass girls all the time. Yeah most likely the
younger students may be having a crush on upper class, not men, but
upperclassmen in girls, schools, talked about, written about, practiced. And I
think for grownups point of view, it was sort of a safe thing, because precisely
because it didn't involve sexuality, or they assumed that it did. It was sort of
like emotional relationship without the threat of sexuality. And I don't know, I
didn't go to girl school so I don't know to what extent there was actually
sexuality involved. But a lot of the grownups think that it's sort of like healthy
development in terms of having curiosity about forming a relationship, but it's
safe. So it was funny, like when I was in junior high school, trying to find, you
know, think about which high school to go to all my friends, like, don't go to girl
school, don't go girls school, so then you get the taste of it, you will never get
out of it! It was a worse than understanding that if I were putting in a situation,
that would be that I'll feel very comfortable in that situation. I'll never come
back to sort of graduate in that phase and in, you know, behave like a girl. So,
in that sense, I always knew and I think people knew and even sort of my
parents and my relatives always talked about, I have a younger sister, two

�and a half years ago. I was the oldest grandchildren, grandchild on either
side, but everybody's expectation was my sister's gonna get married first. And
I'm going to be a working woman. And also the fact that that the way I
dressed and the fact that I always wanted to do things that people
associated with boys or I can I could compete with them. I was very
competitive. I'm because I could compete with them. And also, in terms of
leadership in class, the class president, or the student government, like the
roles that I play was always sort of like a leadership role. And maybe they sort
of didn't give me a hard time about, which I think is kind of unusual. And I think
it has to do with the fact that we were in a new community. And we also got
very young, eager teachers because of the fact that it was very new
development, and it was very [inaudible]. It wasn't connected by public
transportation yet. It was a planned community so they worked on the town
first, and then they put the label after we got enough density to sustain the,
the legal plan. So a lot of the times, young teachers stayed out of school who
wanted to come to Tokyo and stay in Tokyo take the exam for the prefecture.
Their first assignment tend to be in remote places, like in islands or us. We got
a lot of great teachers coming in, who are not necessarily super experienced,
but they had a lot of great ideas and they weren't really caught up in
conventions and traditions. So I never thought, it's usually like when you look
at any kind of literature, which is comic books. In co-ed situations, it's usually
the class leader is the boy and the vice chair, whatever the title is, will be the
girl. Wasn't the case, when I was allowed, everybody sort of understood that
I'm the leader and whoever is going to be the second you know, you elect like
one male, one female to the position, and then it's almost expected that the
boys will be number one, they got the segment that didn't have. Yeah, so I was
used to that. And I think that was part of the reason why girls are looking at
me as sort of pseudo-boy kind of role. Then it's the same thing from girl's
perspective, it's a safe alternative to actually being, you know, engaged in
trying to build relationships with boys. Because you don't get to use that, as
you know, not as love but like as a boy crazy or you don't get the kind of
scrutiny you'll get from your parents if you're hanging out with boys. So
anyway, I think so in terms of I knew I knew early and people knew me and but
I think the expectation was I'll grow up at some point. And it talks of since this
is about style and fashion. So in terms of how I dress when I was younger, I did
like wearing pants and jeans and t-shirt. I mean, I dressed up I did like

�wearing like pants and jeans and T shirt. I mean, I dressed up in the formal
occasions, my father was in the apparel industry. So you know, we would
always get the best suit for the graduation. But in terms of everyday wear, I
think I was fairly aware, early on that the girls had to show [inaudible], like, you
know, there was a very strict expectation about what girls aren’t allowed to
do. And I wasn't happy with that. So I thought the way to be taken seriously,
the way to be equal was to behave like boys. I don't think necessarily, I wanted
to be boys, I was just pissed off that I couldn't, you know, be on the same level
as them in the eyes of the grown ups. Or like anybody, you know, my peers or
my upperclassmen. So I think I was fairly consciously trying to destroy the
expectation every chance I got. And I also learned that that's possible. I think,
once you prove to them that you can do it. You know, I mean, they'll call you
names, but they'll call you names and, but you can earn certain respect that
way, and, you know, wearing girls clothes and was sort of not conducive to the
activities that that I like doing. And you know, running around beating up all
the boys showing that you know who’s the boss.
But when you get to junior high school, at least in my district, you have to wear
school uniform. And I agonised over like, asking my parents for boys uniform.
But I didn't even get picked on like, right away by the upperclassmen. So I'm
like, Okay, I don't want to sign up. Sorry. When's the last time the girls uniform
and, you know, people made fun of me for wearing skirt and like, not
interested in skirt. But, you know, you get used to the uniform that sort of
made me a little bit self conscious. It's not that I didn't like dressing in skirts. I
mean, I mean, any formal occasion when my father brings home the brand
new three piece suit with like nice pleated skirt, I loved it. So it's not that I didn’t
like dressing, but I think I was sort of aware of the fact that ,if you dress like a
girl, people make fun of you. Because they're not used to seeing you once
they sort of have an image of you as a particular type of person, then. And a
lot of the boys tease me like, you know, you behave like a boy. So it sort of
does sort of stuck with me. So whether I liked it or not, it's one of the things that
people tease you about, if you were deviate from what you would expect of
you. So, Junior High High School, even though wore uniform to school, on

�weekends, it's pretty much back to you know jeans and T shirt. Then when I
came here, and I also always had like, hair, kind of short, never grew my hair
long. So when I first came here, one of the things that was really liberating was
nobody has any expectation of me other than the fact that I'm Japanese. And
I didn't speak English, all that well. Later on, I realised that you know, the whole
Japanese female thing and what you have to deal with, but at that time, the
language thing was a lot bigger.
AZ
What do you mean Japanese female thing?
FI
You don't understand how many people stop me on the street, like I lived in
Japan it’s great. It's mostly former servicemen.
AZ
Ohlike men hitting on you?
FI
Not necessarily hitting on you they are friendly. But you know, you have
certain expectations of Japanese women being submissive, docile, provide,
you know, really takes care of their man kind of thing.
AZ
Okay.
FI
Which is. And also, there's a whole image of Asian women in American
popular culture, dating back way back, there was a great documentary on
PBS on the spirit image of in Asian women being juggling lady versus the
what’s that Madame Butterfly, because those are two iconic images. And
sometimes men have a fantasy of having both be the same person. So you

�know, you may look very innocent and pure and quiet in a circus. But once
you get to that point, you're a freak, and you have all kinds of amazing sexual
abilities. And I learned that lesbians have the same stereotype. Yeah that we
have some kind of special techniques. But yeah, that's much later. So at that
time, I was sort of completely free to reinvent myself in a way. I mean, it was
hard, not being able to articulate what you were thinking about what you
observed and what you meant to express. But at the same time, that sort of
took the edge off of how people saw me like, you know, I was always very
vocal. I was always the there’s this thing in Japanese schools that when you
graduate, or when you move on to a different way, you actually come up with
like a little booklet, to sort of commemorate your classmates or your
experience. And, you know, we were brought in, like in the [inaudible], you
know, the most successful all the things that you do. Yep, it's a similar
AZ
Superlatives.
FI
Yeah, so that was the fastest Monday class. We didn't need it the most
popular like, we had like all kinds of things like, I’d always be the toughest.
Boys and girls one on top is number one, and also the one who speaks so fast.
I'll be the fastest speaker. So you know the way sort of my mind worked and
the way I articulated myself, tend to give people a very strong impression of
maybe not I'm feminine, but at the same time, it's a very sort of outspoken
personality that people don't necessarily associate with virtual femininity. It
wasn't ideal for characteristic for women. So the fact that I couldn't speak all
that well, and I didn't speak much, and the fact that I'm in a completely
foreign environment where people people dress different you know people
their hair different. High school kids wore makeup, which could be a cause for
dismissal back in the days in Japan not anymore, but you know, when I was
growing up, just curling your hair or perming your hair, there was a cause for

�suspension.Actually, nobody said anything if I wore a dress. Now, they said,
Oh, that's a nice dress, or, you know, where did you get it? But they didn't make
fun of me for that. So I was like, wait a minute, it's like, you know, I can try
different things and not necessarily have to deal with people's image of me.
And also the fact that when I came here, I couldn't find a hairdresser that I
could trust or I couldn't explain to them what I needed done.
AZ
Yeah.
FI
My mother's best friend at the hairdresser's I've never had anybody else cut
my hair. So come here, white folks in [Long Island?] don't know what to do with
my asian hair, I wanted it short, but it always comes up awful. So I decided
like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna go through the trauma was sitting in a you
know in a beauty parlour, like, praying that they don’t mess it up. So, I started
growing my hair out in high school, and I kept it long. So I looked you know,
very, very different, and nobody really made fun of me for growing my hair, or
getting perm more. So that was interesting. In terms of my own idea of gender
image. I always thought like, I was a boyish girl. And I was comfortable with it,
but then I started to question it's like, was I doing it because like, to behave like
a girl was disadvantageous to what I wanted to do. Is it something that
people taught me to do versus like what I really felt comfortable doing? So I
sort of went and lived in that body for a while, which was kind of nice and
which was kind of fun. And I realised like I’m much more feminine than I
thought I was, and I'm much more comfortable being feminine. I'm less
embarrassed about dressing like a girl and it's actually kind of fun. I never
really went so far as to put on the makeup my mother traumatise me when
the first time I put on lipstick my mother was like you look like a drag queen.
Thank you mother I mean you know I picked up the lipstick my mother my
grandmother had yeah that was my mistake. But so she kept me in check

�about like, you know, what's suitable for me versus like so you know, I never
really after and I'm like okay, I'm not putting on any makeup. Most of my
college years I looked quite girly, I'm not girly girl but you know, wore more
skinny jeans and skirt, but I didn't make much of wearing a dress or really girls
clothing [inaudible]. And then at the time, I thought I could be bisexual as well
no, I think I wasn't even thinking about sexuality in terms of my attraction to
girls I mean you know i i definitely pay more attention to women and how
pretty they are or I will look in there or like the who appealed to me. But at the
same time it's almost like it was like the other way around. That it's a practice
for me that I thought like I could actually date boys. So and I did have a
chance a few times.

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                  <text>The information available on this site, including any text, data, artwork, video, audio, images or graphics may be protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws. Entities other than the Lesbian Herstory Archive may own copyright of the material. Material from the website may be used for non-profit or educational purposes. However, if copies are printed or displayed, copyright notice must be included. Except as provided above, you may not reproduce, republish, post, transmit or distribute any material from this website in any physical or digital form without the permission of the copyright owner. For information regarding any further use of the materials contained on this site, please contact the &lt;a href="https://lesbianherstoryarchives.org/"&gt;Lesbian Herstory Archives&lt;/a&gt;.</text>
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                    <text>Alaina Zulli
Okay, this is an interview with Maria Maria Gorkhover. On May 30 2007,
interviewed by Alaina Zulli, we are in Bobst Library at NYU, in New York City.
Okay, Maria, let's start with your background where you grew up your age and
a little bit about your family.
Maria Gorkhover
So I grew up in Uzbekistan, which is one of the former Soviet republics. Now it's
an independent country. And I lived there until I was 10 years old. My family,
standard Jewish family, meaning, you know, everybody's Jewish into the nth
generation, like pure read. I have one brother, who is 17. And I have another
brother, who is for my, when my parents came here, like in about three years
after they got here, they divorced. I was like, 13 at the time. And then my mom
was married to a guy who was not Jewish, and they had a baby. And that
baby is my, is my second brother, who is right now four. My dad, he also
remarried, but there's no kids from that marriage. And then they got divorced.
And right now he's not married, but you know, he is in a relationship. And I,
when we came, I lived with both parents, obviously. Then, after my parents
were divorced, I lived with my mom for many, many years. And then about, I
think two years ago, something like that. I moved with my dad because he
lives in Brooklyn, and it's closer for me to commute to school much closer. And
I also like living with him better. So let's see. Anything else?
AZ
What did your parents do?
MG
My parents are both computer programmers. My dad, well, my dad used to
be a computer programmer, but in America, he had a bit of difficulty in that
department. And right now he's trying to be a teacher, like a teacher of high
school mathematics. He's finishing his master's program, so you can be

�certified. My mom continued to be a computer programmer. And she works
right now at Duane Reade. Like, you know, in the corporate office and stuff.
AZ
Okay. So, let's jump ahead to your sexuality. Tell me about how you knew you
were lesbian, when you came out, the whole story?
MG
Okay, the question presents itself, how graphic do we need to get? So I always
knew that I liked girls. And I never, so how did I know that I liked them?
Because I had really graphic fantasies about them. And that is before I you
know, I saw any kind of pornography or anything of the sort before we had
internet and before I you know, had Cinemax or anything of the sort, like I had
really kind of graphic fantasies. Nothing like that towards guys. Like, really
nothing. So from, I'd say, well, I'd say age eleven. I started having these
fantasies, and then like, then I didn't know what the hell what that meant,
actually. And by somehow around age fifteen. And I was like, well, let's see, it's
pretty clear that I like girls like a lot. But I actually don't mind guys, because I
didn't find them distasteful or anything like that. So I was like, You know what, I
am bi, because I didn't want to say that I'm lesbian and, you know, cut out the
potential of marriage and men and pleasing my parents and as important
out of my life altogether. So I thought that, well, I thought in my mind that I
was bi until actually recently, it's about a year – no, a year ago, about six
months ago, a little bit more, when I figured out through, like, I guess, recent,
through sexual experiences that I had at that time that No, I was not, in fact, bi
I mean, not minding guys actually doesn't mean that you are attracted to
them. So I mean, I mean, if that's your definition of bi, it's not mine. Right, so. So
then I like identified myself as basically gay as such, although between that
time when I was 23, and the time when I was 15. I always knew that I like girls
like far, far more than guys. So I thought that I was bi, just really more much
more towards girls. But now it's like it's, you know, like, there's no point of me

�being with guys because if, I am just like not attracted to them. I can take it,
but why bother? Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Anything else?
AZ
Well, um coming out how was it for you with your family?
MG
Oh, that's that's a drama story and of itself rather. So the first time that I came
out was to my mom when I was 15 years old. And it was this big. Like hysteric
scene, like I was crying and I had like, hysterics and such and hyperventilating
and stuff. Uh. Why I was coming out at that specific time? Because there was
this girl that I loved or I thought I loved and I wanted to be in a relationship
with her.
And even though the smart thing to do would have been to, you know, keep
hush hush about it, and save everybody the trouble, being the excruciatingly
honest person that I am meaning I can't keep any secrets from my parents,
right? I- You know, I, I went to confessional with my mom and the priest. And
she was like, Oh, it's a phase, you know, you shouldn't do this. And basically,
she told me that, if I do start a relationship with a girl, she'll be very
disappointed with me. She will withdraw from me, and she doesn't know what
kind of parent- daughter relationship we'll be able to have. Which was kind of
like a death sentence. So, I mean, because my mom was basically like, my
God at that time, like her approval was my main goal in life and my main
cause of happiness in life, and lack thereof, my main cause of misery in life.
So, I was like, That's it. Like, I like, I, even though I - No, I did love this girl, I didn't
want to be with her. I simply could not do it, even behind my mom's back.
Because I would be, let's say, like, you know, making out with her. And then
with that going on, you'd be like, What would my mom think of me? If she
knew I was doing this? Right. So at that time, I was like, I really, really wanted to

�make myself straight. How did I do that? I kind of I started going out with guys
basically. Right. Any, like random guys. Like, you know what, I don't mind them,
so let's stick to that. Right. And I tried to like force myself to not look at girls –
tried being the operative word, obviously.
So and, like, a few days later. Like, I just could not stand the thought of my
mom being disappointed in me and ashamed of me, basically. And
withdrawing from me. I told her mom, you are right, this is a phase and I am in
fact straight and so on and so on. Okay, so I thought, you know, the situation
was taken care of, so I will make myself straight. Or rather, I will just ignore girls
altogether, you know. Cause seeing as I was like well I can just go with guys
for the rest of my life, why should that be a problem? You know.
So fast forward to let's see, I think it was about 19 years old? Right. Then, was it
19 years old? No, it was not 19 years old. It was well, 20, it was actually 21 years
old. Right. I actually, like began a relationship with this girl, like in secrecy at
age eighteen, because I don't know I've calmed down or something. And I was
like, You know what? I mean, like, I'm not going to kill myself over it. But like, I'm
not going to tell my mom because I just could not live with her
disappointmented, like, presence, right?
But at like by age 21, it really begin to kind of weigh down upon me that I could
not really, you know, be with girls and have her know about it. And, like,
basically, there was this conflict with this girl. Okay, you know, we actually, we
had a very strange on again, off again, open relationship where we're
basically best friends and occasionally had sex. So it was not a relationship
like as such, like not in the sense that most people understand that. Right. And
I always knew that I would have like other relationships, other romantic
relationships besides her. And she also knew that that she was like, cool with
it. Right? We were just kind of each other's support system. Up until the time
when we were both I don't know, ready to go find somebody else or

�something like that. Basically, best friends who just turned out to be gay both
so you know, why not have sex?
So by age 21, there was this conflict in me. On the one hand, I couldn't I was
like, okay, um, well, I'm bi, so I can be with guys all the time, but that would
mean that I'm gonna be continuously suppressing my urge towards girls,
which was very strong, and it was growing stronger, like every day. On the
other hand, I could not tell my mom any of this because either she'll be
disappointed in me. She'll be like, okay, Maria continue to suppress it or
something like that. Or she'll be like, "No, Maria, you're already 21 years old.
You're an adult. You can go do whatever you want. You can go sleep with
girls," but inside she'll be very, very disappointed and ashamed. She'll just not
say it, but she'll think that and she'll feel it. And I didn't want that.
So the question was, like, suppress myself, for the sake of my mom's approval,
not suppress myself, face her disappointment. Either way, not a pleasant
solution. So, after a lot of, you know, mental anguish that we Jews are known
for. True, right? So, I, I took my mom, I made an appointment with a shrink in
the city, an American shrink, right? And I went to the shrink with my mom, like, I
dragged her to it, because I was like, "Mom I need to tell you something." And
after, and, it was like this big, big dramatic thing once again, in that shrinks
office, right? Because, like, I started crying again, and hyperventilating and
stuff like that. And I even had to go outside to like, calm myself down and
whatever. And then I came back, and I was like, Mama, I love you. And I don't
want to disappoint you, like your approval means everything to me. But I like
girls, and I can't fight it anymore. You know, add all the tears and all that and
all that stuff.
And I wanted to do it in front of a shrink, who has a PHD. So the shrink can
immediately tell my mom, no, it's not a phase. And no, you know, it's not like an
abnormal thing, or whatever it is. So we can have the professional opinion in

�the consultation, like right there. Right? So if I tell my mom, it's not a phase, it's
like who the hell am I? I'm no doctor? But if this PhD of psychology tells her? It's
an entirely different thing. She took it like much calmer, actually. Right? And so
you know, and I asked the shrink, like, is this a phase? Like, can you tell my
mom, is it a phase or not? She's like, "No, it's not a phase." And I'm like, "Mom,
I'm 21 years old. It's like, how can it be a phase by now if I've been experiencing
this since 11, 12, something like that." Right?
She took it. And she, at that time, she kind of, she calmed down about it. And
she believed me fully. Like she believed that, you know, that is indeed the
situation. There's nothing you can do about it really, and right and stuff. And I
guess, it also helps the fact that I told her I was bi, because I thought I was bi
at the time. So she's like, well, she likes girls. Let her experiment with girls, sleep
around, but you know, she's still gonna get married to a guy. And actually I
told her as much I'm like, "Yeah, I'm gonna sleep around with girls, party. And
then I'm gonna get married to a guy because I want to have a family," and so
on and so on. She's like, okay, you know, that's, that's not a problem. I mean, it's
unfortunate. That's not the best situation, but you know, we can deal with it.
She's still gonna give me grandkids. Yeah.
So then, it was like, Okay, this you know, this is a much better situation for me
nice and calm. But then it was pressing upon me to confess to my dad, which
I did. After you know, a little bit of Dutch courage.
AZ
Some drinking?
MG
Yes. So, because I was like, You know what, I'm not gonna hyperventilate, I'm
not gonna cry. And I'm not gonna go into hysterics again. I'll be calm, even if
it's chemically induced. So, like, yeah, that was, that was really interesting. Like,

�he's sitting on the couch. Right. Watching soccer. I'm like, Papa, I want to talk
to you. Like, okay, talk to me. I'm like, Papa turn off the tv. I'm gonna talk to you.
He muted the soccer. Papa, look at me, I want to talk to you. It's important. He's
like, I'm listening. I'm listening. Like, okay. So I'm like, Papa, like girls. He's like, I
know. Like, what? How do you know this? Like, your mom told me when you
were 15? Yeah, my mom actually, like, as soon as I told her, way back when,
she called up my dad and she told him. And it's amazing that he's actually
very calm about it. Like, it's not like he doesn't think it's a big source of bother.
Especially seeing as at that time, I thought I was bi and my mom thought I
was bi. So my mom was like, yeah, she likes girls, but she also likes guys. So
my dad is like, okay, that's fine. You know, you know, as long as she likes, guys,
it's not a problem. Right?
So but, at the present moment, my mom has, you know, gotten used to it like
it's not like a big deal for her really. And it's my dad, he was, he was actually a
lot less, a lot less having problems with than my mom, like very much so. I-like
he was like, he doesn't really care, like, who do I sleep with or something like
that. As long as I make a family and stuff. So it was fine. Like it became like
very calm and stuff. But then I realized about, basically in November of 2006,
after having like sexual experiences with both girls and guys, like one after the
other pretty soon, you know, like concentrated. Like that, you know what, guys
don't do anything for me, not really. And, you know, it's girls that do. So I guess
I must be gay then, like, fully, you know, which was not such a big switch
because, like, I don't know, 80% towards girls and 100% towards girls? So not
such a big switch. So right now, I do identify as gay, because my, because you
know, of my experiences. And my, how do I say this? Like, pretty, pretty kind of
concrete definition. Sorry, concrete evidence that I don't like guys. And I do like
girls. Yeah, and I'm not going to say what because that would, that would be,
you know, the graphic part. So, let's see. That's about it. So I mean, did I cover
everything that you want me to?

�AZ
Yeah. Right. Okay, so, let's go back to let's, let's go back to when you first
started thinking about girls. Did, did you think that about gender, about
yourself in any gender or how you dressed?
MG
Well, I always, I never thought of myself as a guy. Like, I always knew I was
female. But I always dressed in very loose clothing and either unisex or even
guys clothing. But it was not because like I wanted to be butch, it's because I
thought I was kind of fat. Like I had, like a, like relatively big stomach. And I
wanted to hide that fat. And I was really like, uncomfortable with my body, like
a lot of body issues. And because of that, right? It's just that I suppose if other
girls are uncomfortable with their bodies, and they wear loose clothing, they
will usually be wearing feminine loose clothing, whereas I wore just like T shirts
and sweatshirts and something that a guy would wear with no problem.
Right? Why? Because I just felt more comfortable in those kind of clothing. So
that has been my style since basically, day one, like loose clothing that, that is
either unisex or when guys pants and guys, not guys shirts but like sweatshirts,
right and T shirts.
And that style it was how do I say this? It was not, it was not determined by my
orientation. But at the same time, if I were straight, like as such, and I wanted
to attract the attention of guys, then I probably would be wearing more
feminine clothes and tighter clothes, even on my stomach because I would
be like you know, you know, why not? That's like show something, instead of
showing nothing. But seeing as I was really into girls and I didn't care much
about guys, I was not interested in attracting their attention. So it was not
important for me to wear tight clothes that would attract their attention and
for me to like appear on their radar as potential you know, dating candidates
you know?

�AZ
Yeah, so as your self conception as a lesbian as it evolved, did your let's see,
how can I say this. Did your style change at all? Did you feel?
MG
Yes. Okay. My style like in high school was influenced by several factors. First
of all the fact that my parents didn't have a lot of money and I also didn't
want to take a lot of their money so I bought crap basically, like cheap crap
that looked bad. Brand name was something that happens for other people.
So cheap jeans from Kmart, guys jeans, like cheap sweatshirts for like five
bucks, things like that. So I look like a badly dressed guy basically. Right so, so
that, and I mean I could have bought cheap women, cheap girls clothes, you
know from things like pretty girl or you know, any, you know, like really cheap,
cheap, like, what's it called, even Kmart, cheap girls clothes. But I didn't feel
comfortable like showing my body.
So my style in high school was that cheap unisex clothes. Then when I went to
college, I started working and I started making some money. And I started
dressing a little bit better. Like also unisex clothes because I was just used to
that style and then because I still thought of myself as kind of always not
attractive, and unattractive. But more stylish mens clothes, like men's jeans
from Express for example, as opposed to Kmart or Old Navy, like more brand
name, you know, like nicer shirts instead of just crap. Right? Still kind of loose
and still something that a guy could wear also, but just nicer, nicer looking
and better fitting. Right. Ah, and that style continued to about. Well, basically,
up until now, and as I continued throughout college, I worked more, you know,
as I made more money. And I started just asking my mom for money to buy
more brand new things, like nicer things, but I still stuck to unisex slash male
clothes mostly, or at least kind of loose female clothes. Right, like nothing tight,
nothing that shows up anything. If you look at me in regular clothes, it would
be like, okay, the only way you can tell I'm female is you know, possibly boobs

�and above the neck, you know. And you know, the shirt could be female, but it
would be loose female. The pants, you know, male pants.
So the quality of my clothes improved, and the fit and the style improved. But
the overall, overall kind of approach has remained the same. And right now, I
have lost some weight recently. So now I feel like I could wear like tight
feminine clothes and look appropriate in them and stuff, appropriate means
good. But I just don't choose to because first of all, I'm so used to wearing
loose clothes, that I'm just comfortable in things that are losing and not tight
fitting. And second of all, I don't feel like having my ass for display, you know,
to all and sundry, it's just I don't know, like, I prefer this kind of approach,
especially the school that I go to, which is City College. It's a, it's mostly there's
a lot of like Hispanics and blacks, there. And the neighborhood itself is
Spanish. And for a white girl tall, white girl, tall, skinny white girl in tight clothes
to be walking around in Spanish Harlem, late at night, in tight clothes. Ahhh,
no, not happening. So like, like, I don't want to attract that kind of attention,
because they are, in that neighborhood, and that setting in my college
specifically, it's very easy for me, like, you know, just by virtue of being exotic
for them, to attract that kind of attention and I don't want that.
Also, I feel like I get more respect, if I wear nice clothes, clothes that are like
brand new, and you see they fit nice and stuff, but they're loose. Because in
our society, women are evaluated on their appearance first and everything
else second. So if my appearance, you know, my shape is taken out of the
equation, then it ceases to be a components available of evaluation for me.
And when people, when I meet new people, they see me, okay, female, but
they don't check out you know, the assets and so on. And they don't make
their judgment based on that, they make their judgment based on their
actual interaction with me in whatever capacity that occurs. So, in that mirror,
I feel like, I could represent myself not as a set of, you know, the stuff but as

�like a whole person, and males would be evaluating me as a whole person,
which is what I want.
And females also because girls also judge other girls by their appearance, not
in the sense oh, I want to like do her, but in the sense, you know, comparing to
themselves, I guess. So, in that- So I think that I'm definitely going to stick to
this like loose but now brand name and nice looking stuff. Because for me, it
was also in my chosen profession of engineer, there's not a lot of women. And
obviously. So and I feel like if you don't know, if you present yourself like in any
sexual manner to guys, then they will immediately see you like a something of
an object more or less, not entirely but to some degree, yes. And I don't want
to be seen as an object. Like at all, even like 1%. That's just not, at least not let's
say by just some random guys. You know, I mean, obviously, I want my
girlfriend to want me but not just some random guy in the street.
AZ
So do, you said that that you dress, or that you don't dress to please the male
gaze? Is there any sense in your clothing or how you dress and pleasing the
female gaze?
MG
I have no idea what pleases the female gaze. Well, I mean, okay, I know what
pleases me, but that's the same thing that pleases guys. So it's not, so it's not
like anything different, but I don't really know. I mean, my objective is not to
impress somebody with you know the beauty of my abs. But, like, you know, to
look presentable, clean cut, matching, like wearing quality clothes instead of
junk. It's like somebody, you know, that seems like smart and worthy of
respect. And I, and I think that, you know, my general clothes, they accomplish
that. And also like, lately, it's clothing has ceased to have very much
importance for me honestly, I do have feminine clothes, and I do wear them
when I go out and stuff. Like when I go into a club, I dress appropriately. Of

�course, like short skirts, tight shit, the whole nine yards. But that's because the
setting demands it. You know, when you go to a restaurant, you know, I would
also wear like a dress and stuff like that.
But in general, in general, like I don't think I dress to please the female gaze. I
don't try to please, the female gaze means you're like looking for a girlfriend,
which I'm not because I have one. And when I didn't have one, I don't know.
Like, it didn't occur to me that if I dress like sexy, I would attract girls as well as
guys, so it just doesn't work. I don't know if that's the case. So no, not really, I
don't think so. I dress to please me most importantly, and in a manner that is
in accordance with the setting that I'm in. Meaning business casual, when it's
necessary, to college, I can wear whatever I wants, but you know, I wear like,
like nice, like, sort of brand name stuff. To a restaurant, I would wear
something appropriate, and so on and so on. So my objective in terms of
dressing is not to look sexy and not to look hot. And I mean, looking attractive,
yes, but attractiveness in the sense that, you know, I look put together. And my
appearance is fitting the setting, and it's considered normal and appropriate.
And it's like, yeah, that girl dresses nicely, like nothing special. But you know,
not that.
AZ
So this is maybe a little repetitive. But do you consciously use any signs in the
way you dress? Or maybe even the way you walk, or talk, to let other people
know that you're gay? Is that all important to you?
MG
Letting other people know is not important to me, per se. Because to me,
because that has never I mean, while that is a big part of my identity, I've
never been, let's say political about it. Like, you know, I've never been an
activist or anything of the sort. Like if people asked me, I would say girlfriend
and so on, but I don't but I don't you know, have like rainbow flags on my bed

�or something. But on the other hand, my attitude, meaning the way I walk the
way I talk, the way I sit, like on a subway. Like if somebody like in the family
looks at me, they'll be like, yeah, she's probably gay. Yeah, because I really
don't have act that feminine. Like really. So, but on the other hand, if
somebody who looks at me who is not really straight and who doesn't have
much experience with gay people, they will, they will not really think gay, they
will be like no no, ithat girl is kind of I don't know nerdy or she's like kind of
eccentric or something like that. But they will not think gay, the reason they
will not think gay is because my hair is long. If my hair was short everybody
will think I'm a total dyke obviously because, for short when I say I don't mean
short as yours, I mean really really short because yours as you know still. Yes.
No, no, no, no short as in boy short Yeah, like that. Yes, I did have that
experience. I used to have like here like this long. This long. I'm showing like
two inches.
AZ
And um, did it, did people perceive and?
MG
Yeah like people mistook me for a guy like so. But actually, when I had my hair
that short, I dress really feminine to compensate so nobody would mistake
me for a guy because if I dress like the way I usually did with that short hair it
would be Sir, Sir, Sir all the time. But yeah, like, like one of my friends. She, she,
she figured out I was gay like, long before I told her because like, she knows a
lot of gay people and stuff like that. And if you want to know in any, any sort of
way, either you're friends with gay people, or you are yourself gay. You
definitely suspect like as soon as you look at me.
AZ
Right. So I'm interested in that you, you bought men's clothing, since you were
very young you said. Did you ever have the sense that that was transgressive?

�MG
Because for me it was not. It was not like clothing was not really divided into,
like allowed women's clothes and disallowed mens clothes, it was like, Okay,
I'm not going to wear men's women's pants for the only reason that they are
too tight for my fat ass. And what is like, what jeans would be fitting for me,
meaning what jeans would be loose enough that they would like not show
anything men's jeans, if there was a line of women's clothes that was, well, first
of all, cheap, and second of all loose, I will get those, that will not be a
problem. In fact, I would prefer them because, you know, made for women,
they would fit better. And with mens schools, there were a lot of issues with
comfort and the crotch being too low with that and stuff like that, like because
of the cut. And it's been, what's my objective was not to, to present myself as
gay or to present myself as Butch or to I don't know, rebel or anything like that.
It was simply that is that was the only option of loose pants available to me, or
just who that is available to women period, that women's pants are tight, like
straight up, or at least in my estimation, that is the style currently. And that
was the style when I was younger. And if I don't like the style, then what else
must they turn to? I guess I was turning to I don't know, straight leg men's
pants or something like that. Which is what I did.
AZ
Okay let’s see. Um, just looking around, you’re in New York city, so you see
women all the time and do you, you probably evaluate them and try to guess,
that’s one of my favorite games. Um, is there a style that seems lesbian to
you? Like an iconic style?
MG
Well, if a woman looks really butch, then very likely she is lesbian right. And
you know, well not only looking butch because you can have like, like some 45
year old lady with really short hair from the midwest who is you know, maybe

�kind of fat, so she’s wearing mens clothes because that’s the only thing that
will fit. And she’s married with three kids. I don’t mean like that. I mean, I mean,
like looks butch and acts butch and like kind of young and stuff. Obviously,
then that would be to me, not an iconic lesbian style because butches are I
think a minority if we take the lesbian population as a whole, they’re like one
minority of many other subdivisions. But, that is a distinguishably lesbian.
Because, any other style is like straight women wear it also. So it’s not like you
can be like, that is uniquely gay, besides the butch.
AZ
Okay….I guess that’s it, that’s all I have. Is there anything else you want to,
anything else you want to bring up?
MG
Hm, I’m probably not like the best interview subject, because my experiences
are not shaped by my orientation as much as a bunch of other things like
body issues and self esteem and socialization and blah blah blah. Uh, so, hm,
hopefully, I mean, ui don’t know if I’ll be a very accurate, how do I say this, like,
representative of the general population as a whole. Add to it the fact that I
like, am an immigrant with an immigrant mentality. So it’s, so you know, so, I
hope that you can find some American born lesbians who would like, with
normal social development and normal friendships and normal everything.
Whose clothing experiences were in fact shaped a lot by their orientation.
AZ
This is actually one of my questions, is how much really do lesbians care how
visible they are?
MG
Uh, well I cannot speak for all of them. And, okay, it’s like, it works the same
way as straight people. There’s a spectrum, obviously. On the one hand you

�have the activists, you know, who march in the Dyke March and rainbow flags
all over the place and so on. Obviously they care very much about visibility.
On the other hand, you have just regular people who don’t really care very
much. Right, or, who cannot be very open about it because of their job or
something like that. Right and obviously you have people who are entirely in
the closet. So, I don’t know if you can say as whole. Obviously, all lesbians
would like to see more lesbians being visible, like on TV or something like that.
Like, that’s what’s up. But, themselves being visible? Mmm, I think that uh, only
a minority is actively concerned with being visible I guess, like the ones with a
more activist mentality. Uh, I don’t have that activist mentality. I don’t mind it,
but I’m not going to go around Spanish Harlem with like a rainbow flag
because that’s just asking for trouble. My friend got into trouble like, doing
that, even though she keeps doing that. Yeah, so, you know what? I can add
one more thing. I can, if you, if you don’t mind. I can tell you what I think about
the way lesbians dress as compared to the way straight women dress?
AZ
Please.
MG
Right. Uh, well, for lesbians’ appearance, like their physical appearance. Is
definitely less important in my opinion than it is for straight women. Because
straight women are ought to get men, who are very visual and for whom the
physical, visual appearance is the make it or break it point, at least initially. So
they’re like, you know, we need to look nice, we need to bring everything to the
table and so on and so on. Uh, for lesbians, seeing as they’re trying to get
women, and women are not so visual, it’s more of a like, they make their
choice like in partner and fuckbuddy and whatever it is, based on the
interaction they have with that person and so on. There, the appearance
becomes less important. So, lesbians, they would, they would probably wear,
probably looser clothing or uh, less mainstream clothing, like more punk style

�or something like that. Uh, or more, you know, just not be as tremendously
concerned about presenting their assets, continuously to the entire world.
Because of the, their kind of target market, as it were.
AZ
And just the innate, uh… the innate way that women…
MG
Yeah, like that’s why gay guys are so appearance oriented, right, because
their target market it guys who are appearance oriented. So, you know, if you
wanna, if you want to like market yourself successfully to them, then you have
to uh, look good. And probably that's why straight guys are, can let
themselves go, you know and wear crap and have beer bellies and so on,
because they know women will not be evaluating them based on whether
they have a six pack or not, but based on what they say and what they do
and how much money they make, and so on and so on.
AZ
Okay, very good. Thank you.

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&#13;
Grier met Donna McBride, the reference librarian at the Kansas City, MO public library and Grier's eventual partner, in 1971.  McBride first knew Grier as a library patron who made frequent and numerous recommendations of books of lesbian interest that she wanted the library to buy.  In January 1973, Grier and McBride, started Naiad Press,  the “world’s largest [and foremost and longest-lived] publisher of lesbian books” -- by lesbians, about lesbians and for lesbians.  It included romance novels, histories, erotica, volumes of poetry, science fiction and self-help guides, as well as mysteries, non-fiction and classics.  Prior to Naiad, “lesbian literature was primarily written by men whose protagonists generally ended up in one of two ways: they married a man or killed themselves.”  Grier and McBride kept their day jobs until 1982, when Naiad became their full-time work.  In 1995 Grier donated her “Lesbiana" collection to the James C. Hormel Gay and Lesbian Center of the San Francisco Public Library.”  Bella Books took over when Grier closed Naiad Press in 2005.  &#13;
&#13;
Grier died of cancer on November 10, 2011 in Tallahassee, FL.&#13;
&#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier (n.d.) In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Grier. &#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier Obituary (2011, November 13). Tallahassee Democrat. Retrieved from http://www.legacy.com. &#13;
&#13;
Brownsworth, V. (2011, November 11). In Remembrance: Barbara Grier. Lambda Literary. Retrieved from http://www.lambdaliterary.org. &#13;
&#13;
Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, B. (1987, November 27). [DOB transcript of tape]. DOB Oral History Project, Daughters of Bilitis. Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, New York.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, Barbara (1933-2011). (n.d.). In glbtq’s online encyclopedia. Retrieved from http://www.glbtq.com/literature/grier_b.html. &#13;
&#13;
Kallmaker, K. (2011). Barbara Grier, Reflections (blog). Retrieved from http://blog.kallmaker.com/2011/11/barbara-grier-reflections.html. &#13;
&#13;
San Francisco Public Library. Barbara Grier. Retrieved from http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000134701. &#13;
&#13;
Vitello, P. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier, Publisher of Lesbian Books, Dies at 78. The New York Times. Retrieved from http://www.nytimes.com. &#13;
&#13;
Woo, E. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier dies at 78; co-founder of lesbian publishing house. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com.</text>
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&#13;
Grier met Donna McBride, the reference librarian at the Kansas City, MO public library and Grier's eventual partner, in 1971.  McBride first knew Grier as a library patron who made frequent and numerous recommendations of books of lesbian interest that she wanted the library to buy.  In January 1973, Grier and McBride, started Naiad Press,  the “world’s largest [and foremost and longest-lived] publisher of lesbian books” -- by lesbians, about lesbians and for lesbians.  It included romance novels, histories, erotica, volumes of poetry, science fiction and self-help guides, as well as mysteries, non-fiction and classics.  Prior to Naiad, “lesbian literature was primarily written by men whose protagonists generally ended up in one of two ways: they married a man or killed themselves.”  Grier and McBride kept their day jobs until 1982, when Naiad became their full-time work.  In 1995 Grier donated her “Lesbiana" collection to the James C. Hormel Gay and Lesbian Center of the San Francisco Public Library.”  Bella Books took over when Grier closed Naiad Press in 2005.  &#13;
&#13;
Grier died of cancer on November 10, 2011 in Tallahassee, FL.&#13;
&#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier (n.d.) In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Grier. &#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier Obituary (2011, November 13). Tallahassee Democrat. Retrieved from http://www.legacy.com. &#13;
&#13;
Brownsworth, V. (2011, November 11). In Remembrance: Barbara Grier. Lambda Literary. Retrieved from http://www.lambdaliterary.org. &#13;
&#13;
Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, B. (1987, November 27). [DOB transcript of tape]. DOB Oral History Project, Daughters of Bilitis. Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, New York.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, Barbara (1933-2011). (n.d.). In glbtq’s online encyclopedia. Retrieved from http://www.glbtq.com/literature/grier_b.html. &#13;
&#13;
Kallmaker, K. (2011). Barbara Grier, Reflections (blog). Retrieved from http://blog.kallmaker.com/2011/11/barbara-grier-reflections.html. &#13;
&#13;
San Francisco Public Library. Barbara Grier. Retrieved from http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000134701. &#13;
&#13;
Vitello, P. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier, Publisher of Lesbian Books, Dies at 78. The New York Times. Retrieved from http://www.nytimes.com. &#13;
&#13;
Woo, E. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier dies at 78; co-founder of lesbian publishing house. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com.</text>
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&#13;
Grier met Donna McBride, the reference librarian at the Kansas City, MO public library and Grier's eventual partner, in 1971.  McBride first knew Grier as a library patron who made frequent and numerous recommendations of books of lesbian interest that she wanted the library to buy.  In January 1973, Grier and McBride, started Naiad Press,  the “world’s largest [and foremost and longest-lived] publisher of lesbian books” -- by lesbians, about lesbians and for lesbians.  It included romance novels, histories, erotica, volumes of poetry, science fiction and self-help guides, as well as mysteries, non-fiction and classics.  Prior to Naiad, “lesbian literature was primarily written by men whose protagonists generally ended up in one of two ways: they married a man or killed themselves.”  Grier and McBride kept their day jobs until 1982, when Naiad became their full-time work.  In 1995 Grier donated her “Lesbiana" collection to the James C. Hormel Gay and Lesbian Center of the San Francisco Public Library.”  Bella Books took over when Grier closed Naiad Press in 2005.  &#13;
&#13;
Grier died of cancer on November 10, 2011 in Tallahassee, FL.&#13;
&#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier (n.d.) In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Grier. &#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier Obituary (2011, November 13). Tallahassee Democrat. Retrieved from http://www.legacy.com. &#13;
&#13;
Brownsworth, V. (2011, November 11). In Remembrance: Barbara Grier. Lambda Literary. Retrieved from http://www.lambdaliterary.org. &#13;
&#13;
Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, B. (1987, November 27). [DOB transcript of tape]. DOB Oral History Project, Daughters of Bilitis. Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, New York.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, Barbara (1933-2011). (n.d.). In glbtq’s online encyclopedia. Retrieved from http://www.glbtq.com/literature/grier_b.html. &#13;
&#13;
Kallmaker, K. (2011). Barbara Grier, Reflections (blog). Retrieved from http://blog.kallmaker.com/2011/11/barbara-grier-reflections.html. &#13;
&#13;
San Francisco Public Library. Barbara Grier. Retrieved from http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000134701. &#13;
&#13;
Vitello, P. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier, Publisher of Lesbian Books, Dies at 78. The New York Times. Retrieved from http://www.nytimes.com. &#13;
&#13;
Woo, E. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier dies at 78; co-founder of lesbian publishing house. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
Grier died of cancer on November 10, 2011 in Tallahassee, FL.&#13;
&#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier (n.d.) In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Grier. &#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier Obituary (2011, November 13). Tallahassee Democrat. Retrieved from http://www.legacy.com. &#13;
&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Grier, B. (1987, November 27). [DOB transcript of tape]. DOB Oral History Project, Daughters of Bilitis. Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, New York.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, Barbara (1933-2011). (n.d.). In glbtq’s online encyclopedia. Retrieved from http://www.glbtq.com/literature/grier_b.html. &#13;
&#13;
Kallmaker, K. (2011). Barbara Grier, Reflections (blog). Retrieved from http://blog.kallmaker.com/2011/11/barbara-grier-reflections.html. &#13;
&#13;
San Francisco Public Library. Barbara Grier. Retrieved from http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000134701. &#13;
&#13;
Vitello, P. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier, Publisher of Lesbian Books, Dies at 78. The New York Times. Retrieved from http://www.nytimes.com. &#13;
&#13;
Woo, E. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier dies at 78; co-founder of lesbian publishing house. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
Grier died of cancer on November 10, 2011 in Tallahassee, FL.&#13;
&#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier (n.d.) In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Grier. &#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier Obituary (2011, November 13). Tallahassee Democrat. Retrieved from http://www.legacy.com. &#13;
&#13;
Brownsworth, V. (2011, November 11). In Remembrance: Barbara Grier. Lambda Literary. Retrieved from http://www.lambdaliterary.org. &#13;
&#13;
Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, B. (1987, November 27). [DOB transcript of tape]. DOB Oral History Project, Daughters of Bilitis. Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, New York.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, Barbara (1933-2011). (n.d.). In glbtq’s online encyclopedia. Retrieved from http://www.glbtq.com/literature/grier_b.html. &#13;
&#13;
Kallmaker, K. (2011). Barbara Grier, Reflections (blog). Retrieved from http://blog.kallmaker.com/2011/11/barbara-grier-reflections.html. &#13;
&#13;
San Francisco Public Library. Barbara Grier. Retrieved from http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000134701. &#13;
&#13;
Vitello, P. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier, Publisher of Lesbian Books, Dies at 78. The New York Times. Retrieved from http://www.nytimes.com. &#13;
&#13;
Woo, E. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier dies at 78; co-founder of lesbian publishing house. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com.</text>
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Grier met Donna McBride, the reference librarian at the Kansas City, MO public library and Grier's eventual partner, in 1971.  McBride first knew Grier as a library patron who made frequent and numerous recommendations of books of lesbian interest that she wanted the library to buy.  In January 1973, Grier and McBride, started Naiad Press,  the “world’s largest [and foremost and longest-lived] publisher of lesbian books” -- by lesbians, about lesbians and for lesbians.  It included romance novels, histories, erotica, volumes of poetry, science fiction and self-help guides, as well as mysteries, non-fiction and classics.  Prior to Naiad, “lesbian literature was primarily written by men whose protagonists generally ended up in one of two ways: they married a man or killed themselves.”  Grier and McBride kept their day jobs until 1982, when Naiad became their full-time work.  In 1995 Grier donated her “Lesbiana" collection to the James C. Hormel Gay and Lesbian Center of the San Francisco Public Library.”  Bella Books took over when Grier closed Naiad Press in 2005.  &#13;
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Grier died of cancer on November 10, 2011 in Tallahassee, FL.&#13;
&#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier (n.d.) In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Grier. &#13;
&#13;
Barbara Grier Obituary (2011, November 13). Tallahassee Democrat. Retrieved from http://www.legacy.com. &#13;
&#13;
Brownsworth, V. (2011, November 11). In Remembrance: Barbara Grier. Lambda Literary. Retrieved from http://www.lambdaliterary.org. &#13;
&#13;
Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, B. (1987, November 27). [DOB transcript of tape]. DOB Oral History Project, Daughters of Bilitis. Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, New York.&#13;
&#13;
Grier, Barbara (1933-2011). (n.d.). In glbtq’s online encyclopedia. Retrieved from http://www.glbtq.com/literature/grier_b.html. &#13;
&#13;
Kallmaker, K. (2011). Barbara Grier, Reflections (blog). Retrieved from http://blog.kallmaker.com/2011/11/barbara-grier-reflections.html. &#13;
&#13;
San Francisco Public Library. Barbara Grier. Retrieved from http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000134701. &#13;
&#13;
Vitello, P. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier, Publisher of Lesbian Books, Dies at 78. The New York Times. Retrieved from http://www.nytimes.com. &#13;
&#13;
Woo, E. (2011, November 13). Barbara Grier dies at 78; co-founder of lesbian publishing house. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;strong&gt;Del Martin&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Del Martin (Dorothy Erma Corn) was born on May 5, 1921 in San Francisco. After studying journalism, Martin met Phyllis Lyon on a reporting job in Seattle in 1950 and moved in together in San Francisco in February of 1953. In September 1955, a woman named Rose Bamberger approached Del and Phyllis to inquire about starting a club for lesbians—it would be the first of its kind in the U.S.—a social and political club for lesbians. The founders agreed to name it after “Song of Bilitis,” the collective title for Pierre Louys’s poems about lesbian sexuality. Martin was its first president in 1955, national president from 1957-1960, and editor of DOB’s publication, The Ladder, from 1960-1962. She and Lyon started the first DOB national convention in 1960. As Martin stated, the Daughters of Bilitis were "fighting the church, the couch, and the courts.” She and Lyon pushed for legislation reform at a time when homosexuals were criminalized. In 1964, they created the Council on Religion and the Homosexual (CRH). One of Martin’s most famous writings in The Ladder was “If That’s All There Is,” a 1970 piece against sexism in the gay rights movement. Members of the National Organization for Women since 1967, Martin and Lyon worked to combat homophobia within NOW in 1971 and 1973. Martin was elected to NOW’s board of directors as the first out lesbian. DOB folded in 1970, but two years later, Lyon and Martin published their famous Lesbian/Woman. They also started the Alice B. Toklas Democratic Club in 1972, “the first gay political club in the United States.” Martin’s hard work over the years resulted in the American Psychiatric Association’s 1973 decision that homosexuality was not an illness. She attacked domestic violence in Battered Wives in 1976 and catalyzed a movement and the creation of several organizations combatting domestic violence. She was also chair of the San Francisco Commission on the Status of Women from 1976-1979. She and Lyon were lifelong members of the American Civil Liberties Union. They were members of numerous other organizations including in 1989 Old Lesbians Organizing for Change. In 1987, Del received a Doctorate from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. A documentary about Martin and Lyon was released in 2003. After their 2004 marriage was declared null, they married again in May 2008. Del Martin died on August 27, 2008 in San Francisco. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Phyllis Lyon&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Phyllis Lyon was born on November 10, 1924 in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She earned a B.A. in journalism at the University of California at Berkeley. She was the secretary in the newly formed Daughters of Bilitis in 1955, and she edited The Ladder from 1956 to 1960. In 1957, Lyon famously did away with her pen name, Ann Ferguson, editing the magazine under her real name. Lyon worked at the Glide Foundation and the National Sex and Drug Forum (1968), where she did workshops and wrote and distributed lesbian-positive sex education materials. She helped found the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in 1976. She fought against the banning of gay and lesbian teachers in 1978. She engaged in numerous other activities with her partner, Del Martin. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Citations:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon (n.d.). In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Martin_and_Phyllis_Lyon. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp;amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gordon, R. (2008, June 17). Couple of 55 years tie the knot—again. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gordon, R. (2008, August 28). Lesbian rights pioneer Del Martin dies at 87. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Graff, E.J. (2012, April 25). The Queer List, Part 1: Del Martin and Phyllis Lyons. The Queer List. Retrieved from http://prospect.org/article/queer-list-part-1-del-martin-and-phyllis-lyons. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Health Services Lyon Martin. Remembering Del Martin. Retrieved from http://lyon-martin.org/about-us/the-lyon-martin-story/remembering-del-martin/. Lgbt history month. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Del Martin &amp;amp; Phyllis Lyon. Retrieved from http://lgbthistorymonth.com/del-martin-phyllis-lyon?tab=biography. Lyon, P. (2009, May 26). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same-Sex Marriage: An Oral History: ‘It never was much of an issue for us.’ Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com. May, M. (2010, February 11). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same-sex-marriage trailblazer Phyllis Lyon. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;National Organization for Women. Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin Make History Again. Retrieved from http://www.now.org/issues/lgbi/021304lyon-martin.html. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Religious Archives Network. Profile: Del Martin &amp;amp; Phyllis Lyon. Retrieved from http://www.lgbtran.org/Profile.aspx?ID=124.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;strong&gt;Del Martin&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Del Martin (Dorothy Erma Corn) was born on May 5, 1921 in San Francisco. After studying journalism, Martin met Phyllis Lyon on a reporting job in Seattle in 1950 and moved in together in San Francisco in February of 1953. In September 1955, a woman named Rose Bamberger approached Del and Phyllis to inquire about starting a club for lesbians—it would be the first of its kind in the U.S.—a social and political club for lesbians. The founders agreed to name it after “Song of Bilitis,” the collective title for Pierre Louys’s poems about lesbian sexuality. Martin was its first president in 1955, national president from 1957-1960, and editor of DOB’s publication, The Ladder, from 1960-1962. She and Lyon started the first DOB national convention in 1960. As Martin stated, the Daughters of Bilitis were "fighting the church, the couch, and the courts.” She and Lyon pushed for legislation reform at a time when homosexuals were criminalized. In 1964, they created the Council on Religion and the Homosexual (CRH). One of Martin’s most famous writings in The Ladder was “If That’s All There Is,” a 1970 piece against sexism in the gay rights movement. Members of the National Organization for Women since 1967, Martin and Lyon worked to combat homophobia within NOW in 1971 and 1973. Martin was elected to NOW’s board of directors as the first out lesbian. DOB folded in 1970, but two years later, Lyon and Martin published their famous Lesbian/Woman. They also started the Alice B. Toklas Democratic Club in 1972, “the first gay political club in the United States.” Martin’s hard work over the years resulted in the American Psychiatric Association’s 1973 decision that homosexuality was not an illness. She attacked domestic violence in Battered Wives in 1976 and catalyzed a movement and the creation of several organizations combatting domestic violence. She was also chair of the San Francisco Commission on the Status of Women from 1976-1979. She and Lyon were lifelong members of the American Civil Liberties Union. They were members of numerous other organizations including in 1989 Old Lesbians Organizing for Change. In 1987, Del received a Doctorate from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. A documentary about Martin and Lyon was released in 2003. After their 2004 marriage was declared null, they married again in May 2008. Del Martin died on August 27, 2008 in San Francisco. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Phyllis Lyon&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Phyllis Lyon was born on November 10, 1924 in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She earned a B.A. in journalism at the University of California at Berkeley. She was the secretary in the newly formed Daughters of Bilitis in 1955, and she edited The Ladder from 1956 to 1960. In 1957, Lyon famously did away with her pen name, Ann Ferguson, editing the magazine under her real name. Lyon worked at the Glide Foundation and the National Sex and Drug Forum (1968), where she did workshops and wrote and distributed lesbian-positive sex education materials. She helped found the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in 1976. She fought against the banning of gay and lesbian teachers in 1978. She engaged in numerous other activities with her partner, Del Martin. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Citations:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon (n.d.). In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Martin_and_Phyllis_Lyon. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp;amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gordon, R. (2008, June 17). Couple of 55 years tie the knot—again. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gordon, R. (2008, August 28). Lesbian rights pioneer Del Martin dies at 87. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Graff, E.J. (2012, April 25). The Queer List, Part 1: Del Martin and Phyllis Lyons. The Queer List. Retrieved from http://prospect.org/article/queer-list-part-1-del-martin-and-phyllis-lyons. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Health Services Lyon Martin. Remembering Del Martin. Retrieved from http://lyon-martin.org/about-us/the-lyon-martin-story/remembering-del-martin/. Lgbt history month. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Del Martin &amp;amp; Phyllis Lyon. Retrieved from http://lgbthistorymonth.com/del-martin-phyllis-lyon?tab=biography. Lyon, P. (2009, May 26). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same-Sex Marriage: An Oral History: ‘It never was much of an issue for us.’ Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com. May, M. (2010, February 11). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same-sex-marriage trailblazer Phyllis Lyon. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;National Organization for Women. Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin Make History Again. Retrieved from http://www.now.org/issues/lgbi/021304lyon-martin.html. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Religious Archives Network. Profile: Del Martin &amp;amp; Phyllis Lyon. Retrieved from http://www.lgbtran.org/Profile.aspx?ID=124.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;strong&gt;Del Martin&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Del Martin (Dorothy Erma Corn) was born on May 5, 1921 in San Francisco. After studying journalism, Martin met Phyllis Lyon on a reporting job in Seattle in 1950 and moved in together in San Francisco in February of 1953. In September 1955, a woman named Rose Bamberger approached Del and Phyllis to inquire about starting a club for lesbians—it would be the first of its kind in the U.S.—a social and political club for lesbians. The founders agreed to name it after “Song of Bilitis,” the collective title for Pierre Louys’s poems about lesbian sexuality. Martin was its first president in 1955, national president from 1957-1960, and editor of DOB’s publication, The Ladder, from 1960-1962. She and Lyon started the first DOB national convention in 1960. As Martin stated, the Daughters of Bilitis were "fighting the church, the couch, and the courts.” She and Lyon pushed for legislation reform at a time when homosexuals were criminalized. In 1964, they created the Council on Religion and the Homosexual (CRH). One of Martin’s most famous writings in The Ladder was “If That’s All There Is,” a 1970 piece against sexism in the gay rights movement. Members of the National Organization for Women since 1967, Martin and Lyon worked to combat homophobia within NOW in 1971 and 1973. Martin was elected to NOW’s board of directors as the first out lesbian. DOB folded in 1970, but two years later, Lyon and Martin published their famous Lesbian/Woman. They also started the Alice B. Toklas Democratic Club in 1972, “the first gay political club in the United States.” Martin’s hard work over the years resulted in the American Psychiatric Association’s 1973 decision that homosexuality was not an illness. She attacked domestic violence in Battered Wives in 1976 and catalyzed a movement and the creation of several organizations combatting domestic violence. She was also chair of the San Francisco Commission on the Status of Women from 1976-1979. She and Lyon were lifelong members of the American Civil Liberties Union. They were members of numerous other organizations including in 1989 Old Lesbians Organizing for Change. In 1987, Del received a Doctorate from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. A documentary about Martin and Lyon was released in 2003. After their 2004 marriage was declared null, they married again in May 2008. Del Martin died on August 27, 2008 in San Francisco. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Phyllis Lyon&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Phyllis Lyon was born on November 10, 1924 in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She earned a B.A. in journalism at the University of California at Berkeley. She was the secretary in the newly formed Daughters of Bilitis in 1955, and she edited The Ladder from 1956 to 1960. In 1957, Lyon famously did away with her pen name, Ann Ferguson, editing the magazine under her real name. Lyon worked at the Glide Foundation and the National Sex and Drug Forum (1968), where she did workshops and wrote and distributed lesbian-positive sex education materials. She helped found the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in 1976. She fought against the banning of gay and lesbian teachers in 1978. She engaged in numerous other activities with her partner, Del Martin. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Citations:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon (n.d.). In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Martin_and_Phyllis_Lyon. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gallo, M.M. (2006). Different Daughters—A History of the Daughters of Bilitis and the Rise of the Lesbian Movement. New York: Carroll &amp;amp; Graf Publishers An Imprint of Avalon Publishing Group, Inc. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gordon, R. (2008, June 17). Couple of 55 years tie the knot—again. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gordon, R. (2008, August 28). Lesbian rights pioneer Del Martin dies at 87. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Graff, E.J. (2012, April 25). The Queer List, Part 1: Del Martin and Phyllis Lyons. The Queer List. Retrieved from http://prospect.org/article/queer-list-part-1-del-martin-and-phyllis-lyons. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Health Services Lyon Martin. Remembering Del Martin. Retrieved from http://lyon-martin.org/about-us/the-lyon-martin-story/remembering-del-martin/. Lgbt history month. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Del Martin &amp;amp; Phyllis Lyon. Retrieved from http://lgbthistorymonth.com/del-martin-phyllis-lyon?tab=biography. Lyon, P. (2009, May 26). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same-Sex Marriage: An Oral History: ‘It never was much of an issue for us.’ Los Angeles Times. Retrieved from http://articles.latimes.com. May, M. (2010, February 11). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Same-sex-marriage trailblazer Phyllis Lyon. SFGate. Retrieved from http://www.sfgate.com. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;National Organization for Women. Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin Make History Again. Retrieved from http://www.now.org/issues/lgbi/021304lyon-martin.html. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Religious Archives Network. Profile: Del Martin &amp;amp; Phyllis Lyon. Retrieved from http://www.lgbtran.org/Profile.aspx?ID=124.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;This collection includes videos created as part of the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project collection. The Daughters of Bilitis (DOB) was a social and activist group founded in 1955. The video project began in 1987 with the purpose of conducting interviews with the DOB founders and former members documenting their critical role in the gay and lesbian liberation and Civil Rights movement. The interviews focus on the formation and impact of the many DOB chapters around the country. Some of the issues discussed are whether the DOB was primarily a social or activist group, attitudes regarding assimilation, and the "theft" of the DOB publication &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Ladder&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Individual interviewees discuss their childhoods, sexual awakenings, personal relationships as well as their first encounters with the DOB and their perspectives on the organization.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Transcriptions of many of the videotaped interviews are available, thanks to Ruth Helmich, Kelly Anderson, Trista Sordillo, Manuela Soares, and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Links to the the individual interviews are at the bottom of the page. Some longer interviews will be collated in subgroups of the collection tree.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For more on the DOB, see:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Gallo, M. (2007). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Different daughters: A history of the Daughters of Bilitis and the rise of the lesbian civil rights movement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;. Berkeley, CA: Seal Press.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                <text>Linda Lopez is interviewed in 1988.  She talks about growing up in the South and how she fared as a lesbian living in a conservative community.  She discusses the Dallas DOB and how the membership consisted of a number of women who had been married, divorced and had kids (including herself).  She talks about the custody battle she had with her parents over her son and how many women faced similar battles but with their spouses. She also talks about how she and a number of women lost their jobs when it was discovered that they were lesbians. She discusses the Dallas DOB's events.&#13;
&#13;
On tape 2, she talks about the impact of the Dallas DOB in Dallas and beyond, how it inspired activism and other organizations. She talks about Rob [Shivers]' leadership and its role in DOB's strength. She discusses Dallas and the South in General - how lesbians were treated and how they lived. She talks about the need for job security, the roles and expectations of women.</text>
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                <text>In this oral history conducted by the Rossmoor Lesbian Social Club, Liz Salen discusses her early feelings of attraction to girls, her experience having girlfriend at her Hebrew high school, remaining closeted through college and the beginning of law school and her ultimate coming out process and her family's reaction after her sister had also come out as a lesbian. She speaks about her work in her private law practice counseling non-profit activist organizations including OUT Week, ACT UP, and other queer focused organizations, becoming a mother with her partner's biological child, her own pregnancy journey and complications, and adopting a son. She discusses her daughters coming out to her as non-binary and moving to Rossmoor with her partner. &#13;
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&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Individual interviewees discuss their childhoods, sexual awakenings, personal relationships as well as their first encounters with the DOB and their perspectives on the organization.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Transcriptions of many of the videotaped interviews are available, thanks to Ruth Helmich, Kelly Anderson, Trista Sordillo, Manuela Soares, and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Links to the the individual interviews are at the bottom of the page. Some longer interviews will be collated in subgroups of the collection tree.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For more on the DOB, see:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Gallo, M. (2007). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Different daughters: A history of the Daughters of Bilitis and the rise of the lesbian civil rights movement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;. Berkeley, CA: Seal Press.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;This collection includes videos created as part of the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project collection. The Daughters of Bilitis (DOB) was a social and activist group founded in 1955. The video project began in 1987 with the purpose of conducting interviews with the DOB founders and former members documenting their critical role in the gay and lesbian liberation and Civil Rights movement. The interviews focus on the formation and impact of the many DOB chapters around the country. Some of the issues discussed are whether the DOB was primarily a social or activist group, attitudes regarding assimilation, and the "theft" of the DOB publication &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Ladder&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                  <text>Mabel Hampton (1902-1989) was an African-American lesbian, an activist, a domestic worker, and a dancer. Born in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, she lost her mother when she was only two years old. For the next five years, Mabel was raised by her maternal grandmother, but she too passed away. In 1909, she moved to Greenwich Village in New York City at age seven. Less than a year after moving in with her aunt, Mabel was raped by her uncle, a minister. She ran away to New Jersey, buying a bus ticket purchased with a nickel given to her by a woman on the street. Luckily, Mabel was taken in by a family that cared for her for the next several years.&#13;
&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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                  <text>Mabel Hampton (1902-1989) was an African-American lesbian, an activist, a domestic worker, and a dancer. Born in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, she lost her mother when she was only two years old. For the next five years, Mabel was raised by her maternal grandmother, but she too passed away. In 1909, she moved to Greenwich Village in New York City at age seven. Less than a year after moving in with her aunt, Mabel was raped by her uncle, a minister. She ran away to New Jersey, buying a bus ticket purchased with a nickel given to her by a woman on the street. Luckily, Mabel was taken in by a family that cared for her for the next several years.&#13;
&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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                  <text>Mabel Hampton (1902-1989) was an African-American lesbian, an activist, a domestic worker, and a dancer. Born in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, she lost her mother when she was only two years old. For the next five years, Mabel was raised by her maternal grandmother, but she too passed away. In 1909, she moved to Greenwich Village in New York City at age seven. Less than a year after moving in with her aunt, Mabel was raped by her uncle, a minister. She ran away to New Jersey, buying a bus ticket purchased with a nickel given to her by a woman on the street. Luckily, Mabel was taken in by a family that cared for her for the next several years.&#13;
&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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                  <text>Mabel Hampton (1902-1989) was an African-American lesbian, an activist, a domestic worker, and a dancer. Born in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, she lost her mother when she was only two years old. For the next five years, Mabel was raised by her maternal grandmother, but she too passed away. In 1909, she moved to Greenwich Village in New York City at age seven. Less than a year after moving in with her aunt, Mabel was raped by her uncle, a minister. She ran away to New Jersey, buying a bus ticket purchased with a nickel given to her by a woman on the street. Luckily, Mabel was taken in by a family that cared for her for the next several years.&#13;
&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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                  <text>Mabel Hampton (1902-1989) was an African-American lesbian, an activist, a domestic worker, and a dancer. Born in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, she lost her mother when she was only two years old. For the next five years, Mabel was raised by her maternal grandmother, but she too passed away. In 1909, she moved to Greenwich Village in New York City at age seven. Less than a year after moving in with her aunt, Mabel was raped by her uncle, a minister. She ran away to New Jersey, buying a bus ticket purchased with a nickel given to her by a woman on the street. Luckily, Mabel was taken in by a family that cared for her for the next several years.&#13;
&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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                  <text>Mabel Hampton (1902-1989) was an African-American lesbian, an activist, a domestic worker, and a dancer. Born in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, she lost her mother when she was only two years old. For the next five years, Mabel was raised by her maternal grandmother, but she too passed away. In 1909, she moved to Greenwich Village in New York City at age seven. Less than a year after moving in with her aunt, Mabel was raped by her uncle, a minister. She ran away to New Jersey, buying a bus ticket purchased with a nickel given to her by a woman on the street. Luckily, Mabel was taken in by a family that cared for her for the next several years.&#13;
&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
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&#13;
In 1932, Mabel met Lillian Foster, who would be her partner until Lillian's death in 1978. With the Harlem Renaissance waning, Mabel sought out employment in other areas, primarily working as a domestic worker and hospital attendant. As a domestic, she worked for the family of Joan Nestle. Mabel and Joan developed a friendship that lasted for decades. When Joan started the Lesbian Herstory Archives in 1974, Mabel joined her as a founding member. Mabel donated her huge collection of lesbian pulp fiction novels and worked tirelessly with Joan and other volunteers to amass lesbian-related materials--literature, biographical information, academic publications, and ephemera--as a resource for the lesbian and gay community.&#13;
&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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&#13;
As a young woman, Mabel gravitated toward the lively scene in Harlem. In 1920, when she was seventeen, Mabel was wrongfully arrested during a prostitution sting and sentenced to time in Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women. Upon her release, she danced at clubs like "The Garden of Joy", sang as a member of the Lafayette Theater Chorus, and performed with Harlem Renaissance stars such as Gladys Bentley. Mabel engaged in several relationships with women and lived openly as a lesbian.&#13;
&#13;
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&#13;
Mabel was also a vital, enduring element in the gay rights movement-she participated in every gay pride march that occurred during her lifespan, including the first, historic march and demonstration for gay rights in Washington, D.C., which took place in 1979. In 1985, Mabel was named the grand marshal of the New York City Gay Pride March. That same year, Mabel was awarded a lifetime achievement award by the National Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays.&#13;
&#13;
After the Lesbian Herstory Archives were founded, Mabel carried the LHA banner in many marches. She also worked tirelessly for SAGE, an organization devoted to promoting advocacy and developing services for elderly members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender communities. Interviews with Mabel are featured in "Before Stonewall" and "Silent Pioneers"; both movies document the struggle for gay rights and the efforts made to obtain equality.&#13;
&#13;
Joan Nestle started recording Mabel's oral histories in the late seventies, realizing the importance of documenting Mabel's life story as an example of racial and sexual freedom. In these histories--many of which are featured on this website--Mabel discusses her relationships with women, her struggles with racism, and her identity as an African-American lesbian in the twentieth century. Mabel died of pneumonia in 1989 at the age of eighty-seven. Her life as an advocate, activist, performer, and storyteller lives on in the images and oral histories collected by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Many of the resources below, as well as additional subject files, biographical information, images, and media about Mabel, lesbian history, and gay pride are available by visiting the LHA in person.&#13;
&#13;
Resources&#13;
&#13;
City University of New York. (2003). Queer ideas: The David R. Kessler lectures in lesbian and gay studies. New York: Feminist Press at the City University of New York.&#13;
&#13;
DuPlessis, R. B., &amp; Snitow, A. B. (1998). The feminist memoir project: Voices from women's liberation. New York: Three Rivers Press.&#13;
&#13;
Hampton, M. (1979) "I didn't go back there anymore: Mabel Hampton talks about the south." In Feminary 10, 7-16.&#13;
&#13;
Hogan, S., &amp; Hudson, L. (1998). Completely queer: The Gay and Lesbian encyclopedia. New York: Henry Holt.&#13;
&#13;
Lesbian Herstory Archives. Mabel Hampton special collection, including transcripts of oral history. Lesbian Herstory Archives, Brooklyn, NY.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1993). Excerpts from the Oral History of Mabel Hampton. Signs, 18, 4, 925-935.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1998). "I Lift My Eyes to the Hill: the Life of Mabel Hampton as told by a White Woman." In A fragile union: New &amp; selected writings. San Francisco: Cleis Press.&#13;
&#13;
Nestle, J. (1991). "Surviving and More: Interview with Mabel Hampton". In Sinister Wisdom 43/44, Summer. Berkeley, CA.</text>
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                <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Contact LHA at &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="mailto:dyv.lha@gmail.com"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;dyv.lha@gmail.com&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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                  <text>&lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/items/browse?tags=Mary+Bailey"&gt;Mary Bailey&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>Part-ethnography and part-history, &lt;em&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold&lt;/em&gt; by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy is an intimate history of a lesbian community in Buffalo, New York. It combines the ethnographic method of a rigorous study of a single community’s culture and identity, along with the historian’s urge to analyze the specific forces that shape these communities over time. In terms of primary sources, this historical analysis relied on the Buffalo Women’s Oral History Project. This extensive oral history project began in 1978 and extended through the next 13 years. Interview subjects were working-class lesbian women from Buffalo, New York who described their experiences during the period from the mid-1930s to the early 1960s. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These recordings of interviews with working-class lesbians are rich with wisdom, insight and emotion. Interviews discuss a wide range of topics including butch/femme roles, gendered sexuality, relationships, family dynamics, the bar scene, religion, realization of homosexuality, coming out, lesbian mothers, oppression, police brutality, race, gay rights movements, women in the military, youth, and identity. They offer dynamic first-person perspectives of the place and time before the emergence of the gay and lesbian liberation movements. From these stories surface the personal struggles and triumphs of the lesbian community during an intensely oppressive time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For recordings related to the publication of Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold, see &lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/54"&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: Related Audio Recordings, 1977-1990&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The recordings were donated to the archives by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy and were subsequently digitized by students from the Pratt Institute, Projects in Digital Archives class, LIS-665.</text>
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                <text>Marge speaks of the bars in Buffalo, NY in the 1950s, specifically Bingo's, Chesterfield, Dugan's, Mardi Gras, and Carousel, which had more of an established lesbian clientele.  She tells how Carousel changed from a lesbian to gay crowd in the late 1950s and eventually closed because of allowing "careless" behavior.  She felt patrons of gay bars in the 1950s were more respectful than at the time of the interview in 1980.  Marge was arrested for serving a minor female, which she felt was an attempt to close the bar where she worked.  The tape cuts off at the end of the second side.</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="/omeka/rights-statement" target="_blank" rel="noopener"&gt; See the LHA Copyright Statement&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&#13;
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                <text>Margie Adam is interviewed by Ruth Scovill. Margie performs music, woven between interviews, in this redubbed interview. She discusses women’s music as not being mainstream music, as well as the politics of women’s music, and need for women’s production companies. She mentions the importance of networking with women-owned companies and businesses. Redubbed.</text>
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                <text>4/1/1976</text>
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            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                <text>Ruth Scovill&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Licensed under CC BY-NC-ND&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Mari Evans photo</text>
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                  <text>Dyke TV television program components, 1993-1998</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Dyke TV was a groundbreaking public access program founded in 1993 by Mary Patierno, Ana Marie Simo and Linda Chapman. An offshoot of the Lesbian Avengers, the mission of Dyke TV was to incite, provoke, and organize to create tangible change. The program sought to increase lesbian visibility and change people's attitudes towards lesbians, gay rights and women's rights. Dyke TV comprehensively documented a critical time in gay and lesbian history and shared stories important to lesbian communities that were ignored by other media outlets. Dyke TV documented many LGBTQ political actions of the early 1990s including the activities of ACT UP and the Lesbian Avengers. The Dyke TV collection at the Lesbian Herstory Archives consists largely of unedited footage that documents marches and demonstrations in New York City. Other tapes include incomplete episodes and compilations of show segments.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The program first aired in June 1993 on the Manhattan Neighborhood Network public access channel. It started off as a weekly 30-minute program created by a core of producers with help from members of the community. Following a magazine format, each program consisted of various segments such as I Was a Lesbian Child, the Arts, From the Archives, News, and Eyewitness. Areas of interest included lesbian history, daily life, activism, and international LGBTQ issues. The producers aimed to create a well-rounded program that could highlight lesbian life from as many angles as possible. According to one of the program’s co-founders and executive producer, Mary Patierno: “if anybody wanted to do a story we let them do it. We were there to let people voice whatever they wanted to, whatever issues or topics that were of interest to them.” At its peak, Dyke TV was distributed to 78 public access channels throughout the United States.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Additionally, Dyke TV had a mission to provide video production training and conducted regular workshops to enable women to tell their stories through their own means. This community oriented attitude fomented widespread contributions about lesbian issues across the United States and abroad.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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            <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                <text>This segment shows a short interview with filmmaker Maria Maggenti about her 1995 film The Incredibly True Adventures of Two Girls in Love. Maggenti first developed the script of the film as a project for NYU’s Graduate Film Program, but abandoned it after several years of trying to work through much darker themes. She explains that, while the film deals with highly politicized topics like coming out, and interracial relationships, the film’s tone remains light and comedic.  In this segment, Maggenti describes the making of the film, which included a crew that was entirely women, none of whom were paid; rather, she explains the film provided women the opportunity to expand their careers in the industry. The film was released on June 16th, 1995, and distributed by New Line Cinema. It also participated in several film festivals in 1995, including Sundance. &#13;
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            <description>The topic of the resource</description>
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                <text>Motion pictures&#13;
Lesbianism in motion pictures</text>
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            <name>Creator</name>
            <description>An entity primarily responsible for making the resource</description>
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                <text>Linda Chapman [Executive Producer]&#13;
Mary Patierno [Executive Producer]&#13;
Ana Maria Simo [Executive Producer]</text>
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            <name>Publisher</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
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                <text>Dyke TV</text>
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            <name>Contributor</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource</description>
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                <text> Maria Maggenti [interviewee]</text>
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            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                <text>Copyright Dyke TV: Linda Chapman, Mary Patierno, Ana Maria Simo. Tapes and digital files held by the Lesbian Herstory Archives. Tapes reproduced with permission from the copyright holders.</text>
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            <name>Is Part Of</name>
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                <text>Dyke_TV_Iron_Mt_ID_028-05&#13;
Item 795</text>
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            <name>Language</name>
            <description>A language of the resource</description>
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                <text>en-US</text>
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                <text>New York, New York, United States</text>
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            <description>Date of creation of the resource.</description>
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                  <text>These radio programs were recorded onto compact audio cassettes by an unknown individual (or individuals) who documented over a hundred different broadcasts from WBAI public radio. The tapes may have been dubbed from the open reel tape masters before the masters were moved to the Pacifica Radio Archives. The audio cassettes were eventually donated to the Lesbian Herstory Archives. The cassettes were digitized by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program in 2024-2025.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The tapes contain programs that are specific to feminism and lesbian communities, including&lt;span&gt; panels, workshops and interviews featuring feminist writers, artists, poets and other cultural producers that were broadcasted via the radio. Radio programs include Amazon Country, Everywomanspace, The Lesbian Show, and Women's Consciousness Raising Hour, among others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Find out more about the context of the collection here: &lt;a href="https://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/exhibits/show/feminist-programming/wbai-about"&gt;WBAI Women's Department and Feminist Programming&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                <text>Irene Yarrow hosts writer and poet Marilyn Coffey on the show &lt;em&gt;Everywomanspace&lt;/em&gt;. The program starts with Marilyn reading several of her poems: "Insight," "The Diet," "Wordlessly," and "Observation." Irene and Marilyn discuss Marilyn's brief career in journalism and development as a writer, and the writing of her novel, &lt;em&gt;Marcella&lt;/em&gt;, a coming-of-age story. Marilyn then reads an excerpt from &lt;em&gt;Marcella&lt;/em&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;After the excerpt, Marilyn Coffey explains the projects she has been working on more recently--her second novel, books of essays, and teaching English at Pratt Institute. Irene and Marilyn discuss the difficulties of switching between various forms of writing, like poetry vs. prose vs. non-fiction. Marilyn also reflects on how joining the Women's Movement and becoming a feminist has changed her writing and the reception of her writing. They discuss how deeply ingrained the patriarchy is in their lives and consciousnesses. Marilyn reads a final poem, "Cold," to end the program.</text>
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                <text>Masturbation</text>
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                <text>Women's movement</text>
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            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Contact LHA at &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="mailto:dyv.lha@gmail.com"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;dyv.lha@gmail.com&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Licensed under CC BY-NC-ND&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;This collection includes videos created as part of the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project collection. The Daughters of Bilitis (DOB) was a social and activist group founded in 1955. The video project began in 1987 with the purpose of conducting interviews with the DOB founders and former members documenting their critical role in the gay and lesbian liberation and Civil Rights movement. The interviews focus on the formation and impact of the many DOB chapters around the country. Some of the issues discussed are whether the DOB was primarily a social or activist group, attitudes regarding assimilation, and the "theft" of the DOB publication &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Ladder&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Individual interviewees discuss their childhoods, sexual awakenings, personal relationships as well as their first encounters with the DOB and their perspectives on the organization.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Transcriptions of many of the videotaped interviews are available, thanks to Ruth Helmich, Kelly Anderson, Trista Sordillo, Manuela Soares, and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Links to the the individual interviews are at the bottom of the page. Some longer interviews will be collated in subgroups of the collection tree.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For more on the DOB, see:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Gallo, M. (2007). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Different daughters: A history of the Daughters of Bilitis and the rise of the lesbian civil rights movement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;. Berkeley, CA: Seal Press.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                <text>Marliyn Lamkay is interviewed in New York City in 1987 (it seems to continue from a previous video and is perhaps continued in another video).  She talks about being a lesbian in New York and coming out to her family and professionally, her relationships and religious beliefs.  She discusses lesbian roles and how she didn't fit into any of the existing roles, even in the DOB community. She discusses community building and CR groups when she was younger and how she went on to hold workshops about resources for gay and lesbian New Yorkers at Bronx Community College. She mentions New YorkDOB meetings and the influence that DOB had in the creation of subsequent lesbian groups and communities.</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;This collection includes videos created as part of the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project collection. The Daughters of Bilitis (DOB) was a social and activist group founded in 1955. The video project began in 1987 with the purpose of conducting interviews with the DOB founders and former members documenting their critical role in the gay and lesbian liberation and Civil Rights movement. The interviews focus on the formation and impact of the many DOB chapters around the country. Some of the issues discussed are whether the DOB was primarily a social or activist group, attitudes regarding assimilation, and the "theft" of the DOB publication &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Ladder&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Individual interviewees discuss their childhoods, sexual awakenings, personal relationships as well as their first encounters with the DOB and their perspectives on the organization.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Transcriptions of many of the videotaped interviews are available, thanks to Ruth Helmich, Kelly Anderson, Trista Sordillo, Manuela Soares, and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Links to the the individual interviews are at the bottom of the page. Some longer interviews will be collated in subgroups of the collection tree.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For more on the DOB, see:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Gallo, M. (2007). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Different daughters: A history of the Daughters of Bilitis and the rise of the lesbian civil rights movement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;. Berkeley, CA: Seal Press.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                <text>In this oral history conducted by the Rossmoor Lesbian Social Club, Marlene Michelson discusses Her early realizations of her sexuality, her work at the Oakland tribune starting in 1962 which began her 30 year career as journalist, her marriage to a man and experience raising two children, her ultimate separation from her husband, and her subsequent introduction to the lesbian scene in the Bay Area.  She also discusses her late coming out after she arrived at Rossmoor and the start of the Rossmoor Lesbian Social Club. </text>
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                <text>Please see the Lesbian Herstory Archive's Rights Statement and the donor agreement form.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Licensed under CC BY-NC-ND&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;This collection includes videos created as part of the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project collection. The Daughters of Bilitis (DOB) was a social and activist group founded in 1955. The video project began in 1987 with the purpose of conducting interviews with the DOB founders and former members documenting their critical role in the gay and lesbian liberation and Civil Rights movement. The interviews focus on the formation and impact of the many DOB chapters around the country. Some of the issues discussed are whether the DOB was primarily a social or activist group, attitudes regarding assimilation, and the "theft" of the DOB publication &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Ladder&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Individual interviewees discuss their childhoods, sexual awakenings, personal relationships as well as their first encounters with the DOB and their perspectives on the organization.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Morgan Gwenwald suggested the project, founding DOB member Sara Yager videotaped all the interviews, and founding DOB member Manuela Soares researched and conducted all of the interviews.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The videos gathered here have been digitized from VHS tapes by students at the Pratt Institute’s Library and Information Science Program. This is a comprehensive collection of the interviews gathered for the Daughters of Bilitis Video Project. The original materials are held in off-site storage by the Lesbian Herstory Archives.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Transcriptions of many of the videotaped interviews are available, thanks to Ruth Helmich, Kelly Anderson, Trista Sordillo, Manuela Soares, and others.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Links to the the individual interviews are at the bottom of the page. Some longer interviews will be collated in subgroups of the collection tree.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For more on the DOB, see:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Gallo, M. (2007). &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Different daughters: A history of the Daughters of Bilitis and the rise of the lesbian civil rights movement&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;. Berkeley, CA: Seal Press.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The Journal of Homosexuality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;, “The Purloined Ladder,” Volume 34, Numbers 3/4, 1998.&lt;/span&gt;</text>
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                  <text>Part-ethnography and part-history, &lt;em&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold&lt;/em&gt; by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy is an intimate history of a lesbian community in Buffalo, New York. It combines the ethnographic method of a rigorous study of a single community’s culture and identity, along with the historian’s urge to analyze the specific forces that shape these communities over time. In terms of primary sources, this historical analysis relied on the Buffalo Women’s Oral History Project. This extensive oral history project began in 1978 and extended through the next 13 years. Interview subjects were working-class lesbian women from Buffalo, New York who described their experiences during the period from the mid-1930s to the early 1960s. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These recordings of interviews with working-class lesbians are rich with wisdom, insight and emotion. Interviews discuss a wide range of topics including butch/femme roles, gendered sexuality, relationships, family dynamics, the bar scene, religion, realization of homosexuality, coming out, lesbian mothers, oppression, police brutality, race, gay rights movements, women in the military, youth, and identity. They offer dynamic first-person perspectives of the place and time before the emergence of the gay and lesbian liberation movements. From these stories surface the personal struggles and triumphs of the lesbian community during an intensely oppressive time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For recordings related to the publication of Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold, see &lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/54"&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: Related Audio Recordings, 1977-1990&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The recordings were donated to the archives by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy and were subsequently digitized by students from the Pratt Institute, Projects in Digital Archives class, LIS-665.</text>
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&#13;
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                <text>Contact LHA at dyv.lha@gmail.com</text>
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                  <text>Part-ethnography and part-history, &lt;em&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold&lt;/em&gt; by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy is an intimate history of a lesbian community in Buffalo, New York. It combines the ethnographic method of a rigorous study of a single community’s culture and identity, along with the historian’s urge to analyze the specific forces that shape these communities over time. In terms of primary sources, this historical analysis relied on the Buffalo Women’s Oral History Project. This extensive oral history project began in 1978 and extended through the next 13 years. Interview subjects were working-class lesbian women from Buffalo, New York who described their experiences during the period from the mid-1930s to the early 1960s. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These recordings of interviews with working-class lesbians are rich with wisdom, insight and emotion. Interviews discuss a wide range of topics including butch/femme roles, gendered sexuality, relationships, family dynamics, the bar scene, religion, realization of homosexuality, coming out, lesbian mothers, oppression, police brutality, race, gay rights movements, women in the military, youth, and identity. They offer dynamic first-person perspectives of the place and time before the emergence of the gay and lesbian liberation movements. From these stories surface the personal struggles and triumphs of the lesbian community during an intensely oppressive time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For recordings related to the publication of Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold, see &lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/54"&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: Related Audio Recordings, 1977-1990&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The recordings were donated to the archives by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy and were subsequently digitized by students from the Pratt Institute, Projects in Digital Archives class, LIS-665.</text>
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&lt;h4&gt;&lt;a href="/mp3_files/SPW456_MARYK_A.wav.mp3" target="_blank"&gt;Download Side A&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&#13;
&lt;h4&gt;&lt;a href="/mp3_files/SPW456_MARYK_B.wav.mp3" target="_blank"&gt;Download Side B&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;</text>
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                <text>Side A: Mary discusses her experiences in the gay community in Buffalo in the 1950s. She discusses in detail the gay bar scene and describes the clientele at the Carousel, Bingo's, and the Chesterfield. The interviewee also describes the dynamic of the relationships she experienced and observed in terms of both race and gender identity. Mary also discusses prostitution in the Buffalo community during the 1950s. She describes some of her own sexual and relationship experiences. &#13;
&#13;
Side B: Continuing the conversation from Side A, Mary discusses in more detail the types of people she observed in the various bars in Buffalo, as well as her family.  She explains that she got along with her family, but never came out to them, in spite of which her father never questioned her about her relationships or pressured her to get married.   She also discusses the socio-economic status of various gay communities throughout Buffalo.  Both the interviewer and the interviewee discuss butch and femme identities within the larger context of the lesbian community in Buffalo.  Mary speaks in more detail about her social experiences. </text>
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&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Licensed under CC BY-NC-ND&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Dyke TV was a groundbreaking public access program founded in 1993 by Mary Patierno, Ana Marie Simo and Linda Chapman. An offshoot of the Lesbian Avengers, the mission of Dyke TV was to incite, provoke, and organize to create tangible change. The program sought to increase lesbian visibility and change people's attitudes towards lesbians, gay rights and women's rights. Dyke TV comprehensively documented a critical time in gay and lesbian history and shared stories important to lesbian communities that were ignored by other media outlets. Dyke TV documented many LGBTQ political actions of the early 1990s including the activities of ACT UP and the Lesbian Avengers. The Dyke TV collection at the Lesbian Herstory Archives consists largely of unedited footage that documents marches and demonstrations in New York City. Other tapes include incomplete episodes and compilations of show segments.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The program first aired in June 1993 on the Manhattan Neighborhood Network public access channel. It started off as a weekly 30-minute program created by a core of producers with help from members of the community. Following a magazine format, each program consisted of various segments such as I Was a Lesbian Child, the Arts, From the Archives, News, and Eyewitness. Areas of interest included lesbian history, daily life, activism, and international LGBTQ issues. The producers aimed to create a well-rounded program that could highlight lesbian life from as many angles as possible. According to one of the program’s co-founders and executive producer, Mary Patierno: “if anybody wanted to do a story we let them do it. We were there to let people voice whatever they wanted to, whatever issues or topics that were of interest to them.” At its peak, Dyke TV was distributed to 78 public access channels throughout the United States.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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                    <text>Dyke TV Collection: Interview Transcript, Mary Patierno.
Date: 20 November 2016 over Skype (an application that provides video chat and voice call services).
Interviewee: Mary Patierno, co-founder and executive producer of Dyke TV
Interviewer: Amanda Belantara, student at Pratt Institute
Format: Recorded using AudioHijack. 48Khz, 24 bit, WAV.
Duration: 1 hour, 23 minutes, 31 Seconds
Abstract: In this interview Mary Patierno, co-founder and executive producer
of Dyke TV discusses Dyke TV, a groundbreaking public access program
produced by and for lesbians in New York City in the 1990s. Pateirno talks
about the program’s history and its goals. She mentions some of Dyke TV’s
important news stories and recollects some of the interviews the show
conducted with women artists, activists and public figures. Patierno stresses the
importance of preserving other Dyke TV footage that currently remains in
storage. She also describes the production and post-production process, the
ideas behind show segments and reflects on how she would like the show to be
remembered.
Background: This interview was recorded as part of Dr. Anthony Cocciolo’s
Moving Image and Sound Archives fall 2016 class at Pratt Institute’s School of
Information. The semester project involved digitizing and presenting Dyke TV
footage from the Lesbian Herstory Archives (LHA). Students sought out to
speak with Dyke TV producers in order to inform the introduction to the LHA’s
Dyke TV collection that would be placed on the LHA’s audiovisual collection
website

1 of 32

�Interview Start
00:00:00
AB: It's the 20th of November, and my name is Amanda Belantara a student at
Pratt Institute speaking with Mary
from Dyke TV via Skype from your home in Asheville…Massachusetts?
MP: Ashfield.
AB: Ashfield, Massachusetts. Thank you.
00:00:17
AB: And did I pronounce your name properly?
MP: You did. Patierno.
00:00:21
AB: OK great. So I was just hoping you could start off by saying you name
yourself stating you roll in Dyke TV
MP: OK. My name is Mary Patierno. I was one of three founders and original
executive producer, uh with Linda Chapman and Ana Maria Simo of Dyke TV.
00:00:45
MP: Dyke TV was a direct offshoot of the Lesbian Avengers. [coughs] Excuse
me I'm getting over a bad cold, so pardon me when I cough and hack.
AB: Oh, that's no problem. Would you mind saying that one more time?
MP: Sure. Dyke TV was an offshoot of the Lesbian Avengers which was... The
Avengers was founded in early 1992 and Anna Maria Simo was one of the
founders of The Avengers and she approached me and said We'd like to have
like a video wing of the Lesbian Avengers and this is similar to what ACT UP
did. ACT UP had sort of a video brigade called DIVA- damn independent video
activists.
00:01:36
2 of 32

�MP: And they made it their mission to like be videotaping as much as possible
from every angle at all the ACT-UP demonstrations. And I think I saw TV as
being sort of that. Like I always joke and say it was the propaganda wing of the
Lesbian Avengers. So she met with me because.. I... Ana is a playwright. Linda
Chapman is a play is a theater producer or she is actually an assistant artistic
director at The New York Theater Workshop now. And you know the three of
us basically organized... Well we met and we organized the first meetings
around Dyke TV to kind of brainstorm about how we might put something
together. There were a lot of documentary filmmakers slash activists who were
interested in participating and we had it as one of our big missions to train
women in video production. And so thats what we set about doing. The show
started as a weekly show which is amazing if you think about a predominantly
volunteer organization pulling off 30 minutes of broadcast, I say material every
every week. And we also have a distribution component that distributed the
show to where it needed to go over the week. Back then there wasn't the web so
we were literally sending tapes to Madison, Wisconsin and Albuquerque, New
Mexico. And you know even you know like West Orange, New Jersey or
wherever the stations were that were carrying the show we we would send to
tapes Weekly.
00:03:38
AB: That's a very very impressive to imagine just everybody pulling together to
make that all happen. Like you said 30 minutes every week. That's a big project.
MP: Yes. So...Yeah go ahead.
AB: I was just going to say maybe for news readers he might be discovering this
online for the first time and don't know what the Lesbian Avengers is. Could
you just talk a little bit more about what you hoped the goals of the program
would be and how you saw it coming together as a team in terms of what you
want viewers to take from it and get out of it.
00:04:14
MP: Well our tagline was television to incite, provoke and organize. And I think
that summed up the mission. I mean the only thing that wasn't included in that
tagline was to educate too. So we wanted to get people educated about what
was happening around the country and around the world about lesbians. You
3 of 32

�have to remember that this was an era not long ago where there wasn't one gay
person on television, not one. And so there wasn't a lot of... And if there was
visibility of gay people it was always a gay men so there was a real push to have
lesbian visibility increase and organize around lesbian and feminist ideas. So we...
You know like I said our, our well our motto was to incite provoke and organize.
We hope to incite people, provoke them into action and actually do something
and organize. To change to change you know, locally and federally and just
systemically people's views of lesbians and of gay rights and of women's rights.
AB: Yes, it's a very powerful message. I was doing a little bit of research on line
and I really liked that it says the founders sought to document rising lesbian
activism and to provide a viable platform for lesbian voices enter the realm of
popular culture. And do you feel that things have changed since the time of
time TV in terms of how lesbian culture is now presented in the popular
culture?
00:06:06
MP: Oh my oh yeah of course. I mean first there was Ellen and that was a very
you know a small step, but you know she was like this sitcom which started I
believe just a couple of years after Dyke TV came came into being. And when I
had a show where she was basically closeted and at one point maybe in the
second season or third season she came out. Well the next season she was
canceled. So even at that time was early 90s there wasn't room for a lesbian
voice in mainstream culture. And now, I mean you look it's a totally different
situation.
There are lesbian characters in so many films and television shows and you
know in in sort of mainstream fiction and poetry. And so I think that in terms
culturally I think lesbians are really much much much more visible and accepted
and more than accepted. You know, honored you know like... Ellen what her
daytime TV show is beloved probably gets the best ratings in daytime TV I
suspect. And there's so many out lesbians in popular culture now. It's a
completely different landscape than when Dyke TV started.
AB: Well I'm sure Dyke TV played a role in helping create that change.

4 of 32

�MP: I'd like to think so.
00:07:42
AB: So could you just maybe describe a typical episode in terms of what would
have you see and hear from, like kind of if you could just walk us through a
typical episode as you remember it.
MP: Well we set it up from the very start to be what we call a magazine format
so we wanted there to be topics on all different. We wanted there to be pieces
on all different topics. We always started off with the new segment so that was
maybe I would say five. One minute stories we had a news anchor and then we
had a segment called eyewitness which was our more feature, non-fiction piece
news piece which went into a news topic in more depth. And then from there it
would rotate we always had an art section. I actually feel like some of our
strongest material was our art segment and that was produced by Linda
Chapman who was one of the executive directors. And like I said she's a she's at
artistic director at New York theatre workshop. So she's got amazing contacts.
So we we interviewed like incredible people. You know. Nicole Eisenman like
when you know like Guggenheim genius you know Eileen Myles Lisa Kron- two
Tony award winners. Well you know like there's there's a ton of people that we
featured when they were early on in their careers.
00:09:18
MP: I think they were beautiful beautifully done pieces. There's a piece on
Dolores Prida, a Cuban playwright who unfortunately a couple of years back
passed away. But you know we have her life documented so I think actually the
arts section was was always part of the mix. And like I said it was one of those
sections that we were really committed to and proud of. We would rotate other
sessions like we would do sports, we would do... There was a producer called
that Beth Trimarco. She did kind of a funny almost mockumentary type piece
called Fab Girls Fix-It. And she you know would start off as a narrative like I
don't remember the exact story but say a woman is riding her bike to go meet
her girlfriend and she gets a flat tire. Well, she would tell you how to fix the flat
tire, which was always like a super fun segment. I think we had a dating section
once... We had health, was a big section for us. Julie Clark, who's now a
physician in California she did a lot of the curating of that, the health segment
5 of 32

�so it was just a real mix of material and so much of it wasn't being heard
anywhere else.
00:10:42
AB: Yeah we were really... We really enjoyed the interview we saw I think it was
from the arts segment with the filmmaker Sue Friedrich.
MP: Sue Friedrich. Yeah.
AB: Yeah, that was really beautiful, a well done interview. And I think one of
my classmates actually contacted her personally to get her permission to use the
clip of her film online and she remembered it fondly and was quite happy to
participate in the program.
00:11:07
MP: Yeah she is so she just said an opening at BAM on Thursday night. So
she's still you know out there doing stuff. So yeah. Really. Yeah we did a lot with
the arts.
00:11:21
AB: And so, one of the other things I wanted to ask you about was show's logo.
Could you could you describe it if you could talk about it in a way so that
somebody who hasn't seen it could picture in their mind and then discuss how
you came up with the show's logo?
00:11:39
MP: Well we the first thing we had to come up with was the show's name and at
the very beginning when we were first talking we had, we called it Dyke TV -the
working title and we sort of put it out there. What to people... What should we
call this show? And we just never came up with anything better. We wanted it to
be provocative. We wanted it to be in your face. We wanted it to be
unapologetic. And so we ended up sticking with the title Dyke TV. And I think
the logo was also unapologetic in that it looked like a superman logo. And that's
what we were going for, like lesbian superheroes. And proud and unapologetic
and loud and in your face and just out there. So that's that you know.... and
intelligent. We weren't just screamers you know, we did- I think our show was
real well rounded and that had funny... we had hilarious stuff. I mean um, we
also had that segment (This isn't to do with the logos to stop me if I'm going
6 of 32

�off topic) but we did that second segment weekly called I was a lesbian child
people narrated their baby pictures and that wasn't always, but that often was
really comical. So we tried to just keep it you know, a combination of like
lesbian superhero and lesbian every woman and every girl - just you know just a
well-rounded well-rounded dykes and well-rounded program.
00:13:22
AB: So did you get feedback from the community that you were involved in
and working with on the show title in terms of Dyke TV. Did everybody feel
like yeah right on that's that's the best name?
00:13:34
MP: Well some people hated it.
00:13:37
AB: And what was your response to that?
MP: Some people don't like the word Dyke, you know. So we you know, respect
that. But we were going for something we going for that provocation that the
word dyke engendered. And so I understood that some people thought it was a
little bit in their face or crude or crass but it definitely was memorable and I
think it summed up what we were trying to do, you know, which was to be
provocative and to be unapologetic and to be out there and to be memorable.
AB: Yes. To tell your own stories. Right. Because they weren't being heard
elsewhere. And so could you talk a little bit about how you wound up making
connections to the public access TV stations?
00:14:37
MP: I think the initial contact was... oh you mean, across the US?
AB: Well both locally here in New York and then just maybe briefly how it
continued to get further distribution.
MP: Okay. Well we initially before we even started the show we needed to have a
venue. I mean we were at that point, like I said that it wasn't the web so we
needed to have a venue to air the show. And I think it was Ana María Simo who
had the initial contact with Manhattan neighborhood network who still is the
7 of 32

�local public access station in New York City and by the way they're still alive and
from my understanding I think they're still thriving. So, they gave us a slot. And
once we get a slot committed we had to get going. You know we had to start
producing. We I think we asked for a slot like three months in advance because
we knew doing a weekly show that we would need to get some stories like in the
can and ready because you know once the show started airing it was like
nonstop nonstop. So we worked really hard three months before the show
started airing which I believe was something like June 1st 1993 it was early June
1993 when it was our first air date a Manhattan neighborhood Network. And
then people heard about it I me first we went to Brooklyn. And people are like
we want it in Brooklyn we want it in Staten Island we want it in Queens. And I
think we started doing outreach through like marches whenever there was a gay
and lesbian march. We would definitely bring flyers around and say this is where
we're airing if you want to be aired Contact your local cable public access station
and so that got us into other other locations. But I think also there started to
just be a buzz about it that this was out there and people started contacting us
and saying we want it we want Dyke TV in our area. So then you know we
would leave it up to them to work out with their local public access stage and
how they were going to make that happen. And you know it was local
community members. They were the ones that you know had access to to the to
the public access stations. So and then when it got after we got to like I mean
like I said I don't remember the precise figure but I I'm pretty sure we topped
100 at one point. Once it got to be that many cities we had to have a
distribution coordinator because we needed to literally make copies of the show
and send them out. That's what we had to do. So it was like very time
consuming and and pretty expensive.
00:17:42
AB: And I can imagine what were you sending the copies on, what format,
because you were shooting in high eight so...
MP: Sue Yeah well we did average the local stations wanted they had specs that
we had to comply with but I'm pretty sure most of them were three quarter
inch.
00:18:00
AB: And so just while we're on it, could you talk a little bit more about your
working process? So say... Could you talk about how you would sort of set up
8 of 32

�the production and how they would how they would each be produced because
you mentioned that different people were producing different segments so to
speak so could you maybe talk us through maybe setting up a production
schedule an actual shoot in action to the finished product?
MP: Well we had what was called producers meetings where people would
come to the meetings and we would get stories and basically if anybody wanted
to do a story we let them do it. I mean there was very little that I mean I don't
think we ever said no to anything. I mean I think we had to comply to some like
nudity stuff and you know there were some small things that we had to work
around but for the most part we were there to let people voice whatever they
were wanted to whatever issues or topics was was of interest to them. So we'd
have producers meetings meetings and and I was the coordinator of the
schedule for the most part. So I would... I knew that the first five to six minutes
was news. And I think at the beginning it was Harriet Hirschhorn and Janet
Boss if I'm not mistaken who did the news and then later Sally Sasso were the
news producers. So they would be the one sort of responsible for coming up
with the three to five stories at the top that that we talked about. And then we
the I-Witness piece was the longer piece so that was one of the things that we
got feedback from from the producers it's like who's got a story that can run
four to six minutes. When can you have it done? And then we go down the line
it's like you know other people will be there don't necessarily have an interest in
news per se but would have an interest in more health segments. So you know
like Julie Clark, I would say Julie how many pieces can you do this month when
can they be done. You know the art segment Linda committed to an art segment
every week and she was excellent so we knew that towards the bottom of the
show we had you know three to six minute piece. So it was about like filling in
all that time and you know I mean you probably know... you don't have the
masters. But we did repeat some episodes. Especially you know as time went on
It was hard to do that complete 30 minutes fresh every week. But we did the
best we could and we you know, primarily had new segments along the way and
then you know I was a Lesbian Child was a weekly piece and what we would do
is like every third or fourth Saturday- I actually produced that piece. So I would
gather like four or five people would shoot it all in a day. And then I have five of
those segments ready to go you know to put in any of the of the of the shows.
So and it was just a matter of then I think I think for the most part I think it
was Sally Sasso. At first I compiled the shows I'd like make a list, a running time
someone would put it together and then I think I did that at first with music and
9 of 32

�not the inter-titles. And then after after a while I'm pretty sure Sally Sasso did
that.
00:21:33
MP: So it was it was basically very we always said we didn't run as a collective
like in the end the executive producers had the final say, but we were really
democratic and inclusive. It's like whoever wanted to produce something
basically produce something which is why there is such a range of different
materials because we just felt like it was important to highlight lesbian
experience and experiences in all the arenas that we exist. Not just
demonstrations or not just sports but in the health fields. And you know, in
every field imaginable. So that's what we did.
00:22:21
AB: And once you had all of the episodes... so where would you actually be
editing all of this were you editing collectively together or which you each kind
of go way in and come back and say this is what I have and then all of the
different segments would be compiled? How did that work?
00:22:39
MP: We had we always had a studio. You know our office, it was small and
basically a few desks with a partition and an edit, you know, a three quarter inch
edit system behind the wall and there was a high 8 deck where we would make
the transfers so that editing room was being used at all times. You know some to
some of us had our own editing systems. Like I edited for a living already, some
some of us already were working on video and filmmakers so we had our own
systems in which case... Another producer of ours is Greta Olafsdottir and
Susan Muska they're the ones that did the piece on Edie Windsor, Edie and
Thea. They did the piece about Brandon Teena. So they had their own systems
their own edit systems, and they would just bring in the pieces when they were
done. But for the most part the work was caught onsite in the Dyke TV offices.
And then when the pieces were done, you know they were just given to me and
I you know figured out the timing. And we you know we put the shows
together. He had bumpers. We tried to have bumpers. Like you know I don't
know if you saw the the little the kind of funny ad we did that was "Lesbians
What a beautiful Choice" did you see that?
00:24:07
10 of 32

�AB: You know I don't think we've come across that in the tapes that we have. If
you could talk about it that’d be great.
MP: Well that was we just knew that you know because we were working with
volunteers and we didn't want to have to be so precise that sometimes the shows
would be running a little long and sometimes they'd be running a little short. So
we had bumpers like at one point we had we try to get people like we got
Martina Navratilova to say you know put on a Dyke TV hat say you know, I
can't even remember what she said you know...
AB: I want my Dyke TV
MP: I want my Dyke TV or something like that. Did you did you see that one?
AB: No.
MP: It's something like that. So we get other people to do that and then we had
this really funny. I thought it was funny commercial that we actually shot in film
that was beautiful. We had these women kind of hanging out in this idyllic farm.
Our voiceover being you know don't quote me exactly but it was like Daddy
used to be married to a man who's now balding and broke and then she kind of
set saddle's up to her girlfriend, "Lesbianism. What a beautiful choice" And
there were other things like that there was maybe three scenarios like that in a
row. And so we had things like that that we could insert in between segments to
break it up and to also stretch out the show if we needed you know time and
time wise to be precise.
AB: And so could you describe a little bit about what the atmosphere was like
during the production and post production together because it seems like a
really tight knit community project as a whole. And I just wonder if you could
maybe describe what it was like to be producing the show in action on site and
in the studio.
00:26:06
MP: Well I mean I remember it very fondly and it was excitement and exciting
time. It was a time of ,really the first time lesbians had on our own demanded
visibility apart from you know gay men and where you know we were just proud
out there Dykes, you know demanding our place and this and we also one of the
11 of 32

�other cool things that we did is that every. I think it was every month. We
had...we did workshops so we were training women all the way every step of the
way on how to shoot and produce. In fact, Sally Sasso who ended up being one
of the executive directors took what she started off in our class. So and there
are people out there in the world making stuff who started out at Dyke TV, you
know. So we it was just a really exciting time. I think that it was a way for Dykes
to come together in a really productive, fun and political way and see tangible
results.
So you know of course...Was there was there tension? Of course it was a tense
time. It was a tense thing to do to put on a show and get it done every week. But
I think overall that was kind of you know we had very very little conflict. And
I'm mostly just you know were all on same page about about getting the show
done. It was you know very project oriented and the deadlines came fast and
furious, So you know we had to we had to work together as a team and I think
overall we did.
00:28:04
AB: And this was a full time endeavor for you and say, Linda Chapman and Sally
Sasso.
00:28:10
MP: For me it wasn't full. I mean I worked full time but I wasn't paid. I I was
one of the... My brother was one of the... My brother passed away from AIDS.
He left some money to Dyke TV. And so I felt like I couldn't get paid to do any
of the work. It just seemed like a conflict of interest so I never took money
from Dyke TV but I certainly work there full time. I was teaching at the School
of Visual Arts at the time and also freelancing but Linda Chapman, Linda
Chapman It was a full time job I think for a little while Ana Maria Simo was
paid full time or half time. I think Julie Clark she was our first distribution
person. I think she got paid. We basically paid me to pay the couple of positions
that we knew we couldn't get people to do for free. And so production, anybody
working in production kinda didn't get paid because that was more like people
were willing to do it for nothing. So you know we didn't have endless resources.
We had very little resources so we needed somebody to coordinate it and we
needed somebody to get it out. Out in the world so those are the people who
get paid. But yeah we had we had many people working you know 40 hour plus
weeks who weren't being paid. But it was you know our passion at the time. So
that's what we did.
12 of 32

�00:29:35
AB: So that's what we did made it happen everybody coming together. So kind
of touched touched on this a little bit. I was just wondering if he could talk a
little bit more sort of specifically about how some of the segments evolved
particularly the ones that we have found in the tapes that we have so for
example example. OK for example
00:29:59
MP: Yeah...remind me
AB: So one actually that we have the most of is the I was a Lesbian Child
segment. Could you describe that just you know what this segment is and the
origins of how the idea for that developed?
MP: Hmmm... Well that was my segment. I think that honestly how the idea
that came up was if I'm not mistaken I pretty sure that was a Lesbian Avenger
T-shirt. I think you might want to check with Ana Maria or someone else, but I
think one of the first actions that the Avengers did was they did it at a... Might
have been a middle school and between you and me and the lamppost I don't
remember exactly what the it was if there was a teacher who had been fired or if
there had been some anti-gay thing happen there. So I think that they went to
that demo with T-shirts that said "I was a lesbian child" I remember, in my mind
I can see those T-shirts so based on that phrase, I decided to do a piece called "I
was a Lesbian Child" where people narrate their baby pictures and I thought it
was just a fun way.... Number one you know I mean it's you know think of
throwback Thursday on Facebook right. People love looking at their old
photographs and talking about it and in trying to remember, you know their
younger days and more innocent times. And so I think it was also just to show
that. I hate it I hate the idea and like we're like everyone else. But the fact is
we're... you know like humans like everyone else. We started off as little babies
and awkward adolescents and and strident college students and you know
mellowed into adults I mean and. And I think that was part of what we were
trying to achieve there is to just show it is to allow for form of nostalgia, but
also just you know I don't know I don't want to seem normal but just like sort
of just how average and funny people's lives are when told through pictures and
13 of 32

�they are also pictures that were curated by the women themselves so they told a
story that was that that the participants are the people who were being being
highlighted. Wanted to tell in their own voice. So we thought it was an
opportunity to educate, to get to laugh, to have some nostalgia. And it was you
know a very fun, easy piece to put together. And that's that's why we did that.
00:33:16
AB: Yeah and the other segments that we have. Well we think we're not sure
because like I said we have a lot of footage from ACT-UP Dyke marches and
there is another demonstration against Don't Ask Don't Tell and Clinton is
visiting the city I think. And we were wondering whether that would be
something that would fall under eyewitness or in the news. And if you can if
you know that that would be great if you could tell us. And then also describe...
You said I witnessed was a little bit longer than the news section if you could
just maybe say again a little bit more about how those two segments were
differentiated.
00:33:57
MP: Well the news was... I don't think our stories on the news really went over
in a minute maybe a minute and a half. I think we tried to have three to six
stories within the course of five minutes five years you know things were loose
and are a little fluid. So five six minutes. And you know when you're telling a
story in a minute and a half it doesn't allow you to include as much nuance or
analysis as you can in just a you know more straight news story. So the eye
witness was allowed us to go more in depth
about about an issue or a topic or person. So for instance when Teena Brandon
was murdered, I don't know if you know about that story in Nebraska. Boys
Don't Cry- the film Boys Don't Cry was based on it. But the first people who
went out and did a story on that was Susan Muska and Greta Olafsdottir. The
first place for any information or news about Teena Brandon was was broadcast
was on Dyke TV. And so I'm certain that we get a news
story when they first got out here just a short piece. And then when they had
time to cut something longer, we did an extensive piece that included interviews
with like her ex and if I'm not mistaken, I think they even interviewed the guy in
jail who killed who killed him or her I think she still said she was her. So at any
rate that's sort of how it worked. I mean we do know it was shorter. I don't
want to say factual but just more lean stories in the news segments and then
14 of 32

�fleshed it out in eyewitness where we could go more extensively with interviews
of participants or people who were affected a little bit more analysis just are you
know diving into the material more in depth. There was overlap. I mean
sometimes the story would start off as a news story and then develop into an
eyewitness. And by the way we also like I think I said this we got producers
from all over the country to produce for us. So we we had a producer from
Madison Wisconsin who would send us stuff and we tried to get them, you
know first she started off sending new stories and then [‘scuse me ‘scuse me]
started doing new stories with them would do some eyewitness pieces for us. We
tried we really did try not to have it be so New York/Northeast centric as much
as we could. You know given the constraints that we had financially and also
technologically
AB: It is just an amazing production just the reach that you had. You can tell
that there was such a big need for Dyke TV because of the way that people were
able and very willing to contribute from not only from New York but from
around the country and you know it is just a really important groundbreaking
program. And then we also have some segments that we think would be
classified under the Arts. You mentioned that a little bit already but if you could
maybe just give us a very brief description of the arts and the idea for that
segment.
00:37:44
MP: Well women artists or even to this day such a small segment of artists that
are exhibited in museums and galleries. You know if you look at like the top 100
best selling artists I mean there might be like three on the entire list that are
women. Never mind lesbians. So we realize that lesbian artists were invisible to a
good part of humanity and we wanted to bring out their their talents and their
personalities and you know their abilities. And so we had people like Elizabeth
Streb she's a genius you know and we did an extensive piece on Elizabeth Streb.
Nancy Fried is a really influential sculptor. [Scuse me.] You know, there were you
know Nicole Eisenman, as I mentioned before. Lisa Kron and the five lesbian
brothers. So I think we did a piece on Peggy Shaw and Lois Weaver, Split
Britches. So we really really knew that there was a wealth of talent out there that
was not recognized or even known about.
00:39:06
15 of 32

�MP: And so it was it was really in our interests to get that material and those
women out there. And I'm not even saying to mainstream culture. To lesbian
cultures I mean lesbians didn't even know about these women these amazing
women that were out there toiling away and creating amazing stuff. So yeah, the
arts was really near and dear to us. I mean like I said, Ana Maria is a playwright.
Lisa is the artistic director in the theater. You know I'm a documentary
filmmaker at the time I was doing more experimental work. So we had a
commitment not only personally not only in terms of the show but also
personally we had a commitment to the arts. We were both. All three of us were
very ensconced in the art community in downtown Manhattan at the time. And
so we knew of dozens and dozens and dozens of women who were out there
working doing amazing work that no one knew about. So that was that was
really a big commitment of ours to make sure that those women were
recognized and celebrated. And that became a very important component of
the show.
AB: I thank you very much succeeded in that. Like in the episodes that we saw
with the one. Like I mentioned that contains an interview with Su Friederich
and then another one is with a filmmaker named Maria Maggenti. I'm not sure
how you pronounce your name. Yeah yeah. And they were both very well
produced segments and really made us want to discover their artwork more. Mm
hmm. And then another segment that's mentioned in one of the things that we
have one of the tapes is called from the archives and you do remember what the
idea was behind that particular segment.
00:41:02
MP: The idea behind that was you know we have a great resource in New York
City. I hope young lesbians know about and that's called the Lesbian Herstory
Archives. They have their own building in Brooklyn and they own the building
if I'm not mistaken I think it's paid off. They have an amazing collection of
archives of lesbian material from forever. And so what we wanted to do was
take advantage of that collection. And each week, I actually I don't think it was a
weekly segment it was only a monthly segment more. More likely a monthly
segment- dive into the archives and show and explain some of the material that
they that they had there, so that women knew that there was a history- that we
weren't we weren't inventing the wheel that there were women who had come
before us, brave women who had made a place for where we were and to look
back on the struggles that they had and put our current struggles into
16 of 32

�perspective and to know that you know people -women have been fighting for a
long time for their rights. And yeah and also to highlight the good work and the
great collection of the archives. It was an opportunity for us to highlight that
because it is an amazing institution with incredibly valuable material and an
incredibly unique collection.
AB: Oh that's so great. We hadn't realized that it was actually we thought it was
maybe from Dyke TV cause we didn't know it was from LHA archives.
00:42:54
I'm pretty sure what was the segment you saw it just I don't think that we were. I
don't think "from the archives" meant that we were showing old stuff of our
own. I think we were showing stuff from the Lesbian Herstory archives.
00:43:08
AB: Yeah I'd have to double check our records from that because we've seen so
many tapes. I'm not sure which one was exactly that from the archives one but I
can look it up and let you know because we do have some descriptive metadata.
And another one of our groups has been working on in terms of just describing
it segments that people could find it online. So in terms of Dyke TV sounds like
it was really successful and rewarding project for everybody involved. Did you
ever receive any negative feedback on the show? And you know, how if you ever
did, could you talk about how you dealt with it?
MP: You know to be honest with you I'm not remembering a lot of negative.
Like there wasn't like death threats or anything like that. I think if there were
any threats they probably went to the public access stations and maybe they
shielded us from it. I think there might have been one station and I'd have to
double check with someone on the veracity of this but I believe that might have
been one station that told us. I think we might have done a cervical exam as part
of one of the health segments and we might have gotten pulled from a couple
of stations after that. But other than that, I mean you know course sometimes
you know people would approach us and say oh you should be doing more
stories about whatever fill in the blank. And we always say well you know come
and do it. It's like it's a volunteer organization. People do the subjects and a
subject matter that they're interested in. And if that's subject interests you then
you should come. Come on down and help us produce, because we were pretty
much open to any stories being made. I mean one of the really the only
17 of 32

�restrictions we had was that we thought it was really important not to criticize
any other gay and lesbian organization, because unfortunately I think that that
happens way too much. I think that's part of the reason why the left, you know
lost this last election and to be honest. I think that we spent a lot of time eating
each other up and you know and I think that... I mean there are organizations
that I don't respect terribly, but they're doing work on behalf of gay and lesbian
people, not in the air arena that I would want there that I find near and dear to
me. But I didn't want to spend an hour of our time criticizing those
organizations. They are not the enemy. And so we really try to be very keep a
very very positive outlook and point of view to anybody during trying to do
anything to make change and I think that you know as though you know the left
should do more of that because you know not everyone can be uber activist.
Not everyone has the ability or the disposition to do that. But as long as people
are trying to do something then I'm not.... I don't want to spend an ounce of
my time criticizing and we made a point at Dyke TV not to do that. There's an
organization called the Human Rights Campaign. I'll give you an example.
00:46:51
MP: They really fought for gay marriage and for the rights of people to be in
the military. Well early on in Dyke TV a lot of us were like really the two most
conservative institutions on the planet. You're going to fight for that? And the
other thing that they did was they they supported a Republican senator over.
Was that the guy at the time the guy's name was Al D'Amato. They supported
him over Charles Schumer who's now currently our senator in New York. And
it pissed a lot of people off. But we weren't going to spend a second of our time
on that as much as a lot of us were very unhappy with the direction of the
organization. We didn't spend a second of our time. They were not the enemy.
So I mean I think that it helped us. You know just keep a pretty positive place in
the gay and lesbian community. Of course there were many people who were
offended by the name, but you know, we we came to terms with that very very
early on. We felt like the power that was inscribed in it in the end the number of
people who actually appreciated the name far outweighed the kind of you know
more conservative people who thought that that was a crass, unwise name for
our show. I will say it did make it hard to fundraise.
You know it's hard to raise money with name like Dyke TV back in the
90s. [Scuse me I'm going to cough again. I'm sorry]
00:48:39
18 of 32

�AB: Speaking of keeping things positive. Could you talk a bit about what you
feel are the the main successes of the project?
00:48:51
MP: Well honestly I think the main successes is that we like really really very
comprehensively documented a critical time period and gay and lesbian history. I
mean I think there was so much happening in the 90s. It was the peak of the
AIDS epidemic or you know the early 90s late 80s early 90s peak of the AIDS
epidemic.
It was at the very beginning of...I mean it was I mean gay activism of course had
been happening since stonewall. [coughs] I'll say again it again. I'll start again.
Gay activism had been happening since stonewall but it was really coming to a
critical head, I think pushed a lot by what was had happened with ACT UP all
the activism around AIDS.
And so I I do think that that period of the late 80s, all of the 90s into the early
oughts were just very very instrumental times for the gay and lesbian movement
in the US and frankly around the world. So, I would say our biggest achievement
is that we have for for you know, millennials I hope, and I don't mean that as a
category, but like for into the future have documented and I'm hoping you know
preserving this history for other people to see it was an amazingly dynamic
exciting time period of activism and tangible change
AB: For all of this success, is there anything still that you might have done
differently.
00:50:42
MP: Well I just wished ITV had lasted like five more years because we just
missed the Internet. And I actually think the Internet would have been better
venue. It certainly would have been an easier venue. But I think Dyke TV would
have been sort of tailor made for the Internet. Just the magazine format the way
we dealt with different topics, so that you know people with different interests
could tap in and not only as viewers but as producers.
00:51:17
MP: I think that that if we could have made it in and had an internet presence,
that would have been great not only for the show but for for our fans and
viewers.
19 of 32

�AB: Absolutely. Well speaking of the Internet we are going to be putting the
materials that we do have online for people to access via the LHA web site. And
I just wanted to run by you our idea for how we're going to be presenting it.
Because since we don't have full episodes per se we have this kind of archival
challenge or you know we have to kind of
brainstorm to figure out the most suitable way to present what we do have. So
the idea is to actually take the footage that we have and then break it into the
various segments that will have an introduction to this show just explaining the
background and naming key producers such as yourself. And then we're going
to have for example, I was a lesbian Child section where we'll have three clips of
that of three different. I was a lesbian child segments and they were going to
have the Arts segment and we'll have Maria Maggenti's interview and Sue
Friedrich's interview and then we're going to have an eyewitness section. So
we're thinking of breaking it down into segments like that. How would your
feelings be about that?
00:52:51
MP: Well this is my thing. I know that Sally is even more cautious than I am,
and that is If I find I'm mistaken. I don't think we ever got a release form from
anybody. So for instance Maria Maggenti, I don't know if she considers herself
a lesbian anymore I would feel uncomfortable with you showing her piece. But
Sue Friederich on the other hand, I think would be fine. I guess before...,I think
that what we had said initially Sally and I...this is what we're doing with Smith
initially is anything that's in public domain can be screened with no problem at
all. It sounds like you got permission from Sue Friederich already. But I would
feel terrible if you're going to do that and you get permission. There may other
people like her who are no longer gay and you don't have a husband who has no
idea that they were allegedly also there showing up on this lesbian website. Well
I mean I just I just don't know how people are going to react. And legally we
don't want any trouble. But, I mean I think if there are understanding is if
things are shot on the street there's a presumption. There's no presumption of
privacy. But, You know in an interview with Maria Maggenti. You might just
want to get her permission. Plus you're also showing clips of her film which is
owned by like Warner Brothers and I don't even know it's owned by.
00:54:24
AB: Yeah there's all sorts of rights implications there and it's a bit of a sticky
issue.
20 of 32

�00:54:29
MP: Yeah I think that to be honest with you I doubt Maria owns the rights to
her films. That's really what it is. So I would seriously, you know just be mindful
of that and you can just put anything you want up. Yeah. Where you can get
permission and start compiling that. Like if you could even like get a you get an
excel sheet where we know, because Smith wants to do this too and we
cautioned them. We're not sure that just anything can go up there you know.
AB: So, Yes I know that. Another one of my classmates, Victoria. She's been emailing a few of the people that are in the I was a lesbian child segments and
she's gotten permission from people the ones some the clips that we're going to
show in specifically with people who have said that they are OK.
MP: Yes. Good.
AB: And then there's also a really powerful interview by a woman, I'm not sure
if I'm saying her name correctly, but it's Jelica from Yugoslavia or former
Yugoslavia now.
00:55:33
MP: Yes she was awesome.
AB: Yes, it was very powerful interview and she apparently said it was all right as
long as we didn't make her name searchable on the Internet. So she was OK
with it being present she just didn't want you know a search for her name to
bring that up necessarily. So we're not going to include her name in a way that
that's going to show up in the metadata.
MP: If you will if there's a way for you to just keep track of this so people
don't have to do all this work twice. You could let Smith know that you got the
OK for these specific things. I mean have a way of dealing with it because they
didn't want to have to go segment by segment get permission and to be honest
with you. I need to meet with them again but they had a strategy that basically
we're not responsible... I mean you know. Nor have the producers given. You
know. There were some.... Believe me they have a legal team so they have some
way of dealing with it where it seem to make things hard to litigate. But
21 of 32

�I could get back with you. I mean the more you can get permission, obviously
the less trouble there's gonna be.
00:56:50
AB: Well that's why we're just kind of really showing. I mean first of all that's
mostly what we have is the rushes or the raw footage of the demonstrations so
we're including those in their entirety. There's like an hour per tape or something
like that. And then after that there's the the little segments there's another one I
think we're going to include in the the eyewitness section which actually I'm not
sure now if this would be considered eyewitness or not but there is something
at Clark Corners where a woman is reporting on some discrimination she and
her partner faced in a restaurant. Does that ring a bell?
MP: It doesn't but I I you tell me did you get in touch with Sally Sasso.
00:57:33
AB: You know we've tried reaching out to a few different people without
getting many responses. And then we did hear from Laura.
00:57:42
MP: Laura Perry
AB: You know she got in touch and said that she'd be willing to speak with us
but that she wanted us to to speak with you first and that if we weren't getting
everything that she would talk as well but she wanted us to speak with you first I
think.
00:57:56
MP: Yeah. Sally Sasso and so I think Sally and Laura ran it together it was
mostly me.
Me, Ana and Linda at first and then AnaI dropped out it was me and Linda for a
while and I think it was Laura and Sally for a long period. Sally just entered law
school. So that's the reason why she had been talking a lack of interest. It's just
she's, you know she's got a kid and she's in law school and she's just you know
barely keeping her head above water.

22 of 32

�AB: I understand that completely. I'm right there myself so I get it. So just one
other thing I mean I'd love to get Maria Maggenti's contacts if you have it but
maybe we could.
MP: Let me look
AB: But maybe we could get back on that via e-mail. But I was just wondering
if you could say little bit about how you'd like Dyke TV to be remembered and
described for future generations.
00:58:56
MP: Oh I think I'd like it to be considered ahead of its time. Dynamic. You
know, important. A catalyst for change. An activist organization that used the
arts to inform people to get them excited, in a venue where lesbians were
revered and honored and... and given the attention that they deserved, in not
only in the activist community but in the greater society at large. You know what
I want to be remembered is fierce and uncompromising... but also funny and
irreverent. You know in a show that was really well rounded and ahead of its
time. And I think I think we were all that.
01:00:07
AB: I think so too from what we've seen so far. And if you would like I mean if
you could just say how would you like it to actually be described. I mean you've
mentioned how he'd like to be remembered. And so here it is being
groundbreaking and fierce. And you know ahead of its time how would you like
the program to be described by you know previous viewers who were watching
it live as broadcast and then now for maybe youth now just maybe finding it in
LHA archive. How would you like him to describe it?
MP: I mean I think you said it. I would like it to be thought of as a
groundbreaking fierce.
Early television show that highlighted lesbian activism and visibility. In a time
when lesbians weren't even on the map and that we came together as a
community of artists and slash activists and produce something that was
meaningful and I think still relevant today.

23 of 32

�AB: Absolutely. And would you ever maybe think about now that there is this
new internet and web vehicle for showing shows would you ever start up Dyke
TV again?
01:01:39
MP: I don't know that I would but I would certainly encourage someone else to.
I talked to a woman it was about a year ago who was interested in doing
something not quite like Dyke TV in maybe a little bit more I would say more
like a blog, slash video site. And that was that was geared towards lesbians. I
mean so much just like lesbian gay by transgendered. And so, but she really
wanted to focus on lesbians which I think has been something that's been quite
a controversial idea, that by focusing just on lesbians somehow it's excluding gay
experience bi experience or trans experience. And I don't think that so I think
that you know women and and lesbians need -we need visibility.
We're not out there in the world enough still to this day. And so I think it's
something that if somebody had the energy, that I think it could, I think it's not
only necessary but could be successful. [coughs] Let me say it again it's not only
it's not only necessary but could be successful.
AB: Absolutely. Do you think at the moment that there is any programming
that's on right now that resonates with what Dyke TV was doing at all?
MP: You know I'm not it was you my friend who was going to do some saying
she was a colleague of mine and she was going to actually do a collaboration
with someone and she told me I'm just looking to see if I can find... what she
had... because I thought she had a name. So I can't find it. I can't find it right
now. But not that I know of. Like I said I think there's a lot of I think that in
some ways people perhaps don't feel like there's a need you know which is is a
bit depressing to me, because you know we made a lot of strides as gay people
and and I don't think that gay people feel as marginalized or under siege. Maybe
they do now with Trump. But, so I think that there hasn't been- there are still
certainly arcane lesbian organizations but I'm not sure. I don't know. That's a
really good question. That's a really I think there's a need and I think that that
it's you know like just like women. Women are still, we've made progress sure
but we still have so much that we have to overcome in terms of discrimination
and the way we're treated in society at large. And so I think that to highlight
women's experience and specifically lesbians experience is still a necessity.
24 of 32

�01:05:06
AB: Very much so. And so you mentioned before that you know you you've got
really strong connection to the LHA archive And we were just curious if you
could just briefly discuss how Dyke TV wound up at Smith. Because I think our
professor at the start of it was really excited at the idea of it but he didn't
understand that the masters were all somewhere else.
MP: Yeah but you know what. I don't think that I don't think that the Archives
has. I don't I don't think it's that college has an exclusive exclusive deal at all. So
if you guys want it masters I think that you could get him
AB: Right. OK.
MP: My guess is is that if you want a masters you could get them from Smith
and we and we make that really clear we didn't want an exclusive thing. I don't
want an exclusive thing. That's not their deal. But that's not that's not how the
Smith archives works it's really about getting women's material historical
material about women throughout the ages. Out in the world. So I don't think
they have. An exclusive way of dealing with their material. I think they are
actually quite generous in sharing. It's my understanding of them.
01:06:38
AB: Oh yeah. You've been very friendly because we've contacted them in order
to get a finding aid, you need to find out what they actually did have because
when you first visit their web site it's not obvious about what is actually there.
We are trying to piece together what it was LHA had and what Smith had to try
and figure out what the content was on these tapes because these are just you
know unlabelled U-Matic tapes and a lot of cases and we were just trying to get
a sense of what you know complete episodes were like and how you they were
produced and so on and so on. So yeah everybody's been very friendly we were
just curious about how some of it you know got separated.
MP: I think that what happened was the original high 8s. And maybe there
weren't maybe the U-matic parts that you have, or individual segments that
people edited probably ended up in our closet in our archive closet at Dyke TV
while we were still functioning. 'Scuse me. [coughs] and then once our closet got
full, we were like we got to get this somewhere. So we gave it to the Lesbian
25 of 32

�Herstory archives. But we still had the masters and when I moved up here, Sally
Sasso who had also been one of... I stopped being involved with
TV after a certain period. I think I worked until like 97 or something like that.
And if I'm not mistaken maybe. Dyke TV.... you do you know the end date. No.
You'd have to ask Sally Sasso about that, but I think it would only be to know
that we were around for 9/11 so maybe it ended at like 2000. So when. When
Dyke TV got rid of their office. They asked if they could put you know a bunch
of their stuff in my basement. And to be honest it's still there. I just have a ton
of stuff in my basement, which I think are mostly masters.
AB: Oh wow.
MP: You know I think. Smith got the other half I think there were two sets of
masters. So I think that's how it works. But like I said by the end, I wasn't
involved in the day to day any more. I'd say for the last three or four years I
wasn't. So the person who would know how that came about would be Sally.
And my guess is that you probably...I know well it's beyond the scope of your
particular assignment due soon. But if somebody was following up the time to
reach her is obviously school break when she's in between semesters at law
school.I think when she's in law schools there's just no finding her or getting in
touch with her. She's swamped.
01:09:41
AB: Like I said I'll definitely let my professor know I know he'll be really
pleased to find out that there is you know more footage out there to kind of
capture and add to the LHA collection because he's been working with them.
Pratt has been working with the LHA. for you know I think at least a few years
now and I think that this relationship is going to continue since it's a mutually
beneficial situation where students are getting real firsthand experience of you
know archiving materials. And then LHA is you know getting some really
important work done on their behalf. So right I think I don't see that this
relationship
is going to not continue.
MP: You know what I had heard was that the high 8's were given to the archive
and then
26 of 32

�AB: You mean Smith or LHA.
MP: LHA
AB: OK.
01:10:34
MP: And then for a while I thought I heard they were being stored in the
basement. And I think we said that's not a good idea and you need to get 'em
somewhere. And if I'm not mistaken which I could be...I thought that they were
brought somewhere that had like better climate control. But you know the same
people are still there. Like Maxine Wolf. Did anyone talk to Maxine?
AB: Oh yeah we met with her she's lovely.
MP: Yes she's a doll. I'm just what I'm trying of who we gave that material too.
But there were high eights like like boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes and
boxes and you know some of it's going to be not so good it's like raw material,
you know, but I mean some of it is going to there's going to be some gems in
there. Just gems.
AB: I can imagine I mean just thinking is this everything that you guys were out
there to capture as it was happening you know live on the streets. And. There's
some stuff in there that if it gets lost it's going to be a real loss to the
community at large.
01:11:42
MP: You know just in unity at large interviews with people like Tammy Baldwin
for instance she's a congressperson and was in Wisconsin she she's the first
lesbian and gay Congress person I think we interviewed her when she was
running for like state/.. in the statehouse in Wisconsin I mean we have
interviews of people along the way who are now you know have moved on to
bigger and better things. And it's you know to see them in their early iterations
not only artists but politicians and you know musicians poets. I think we Eileen
Myles from back in the 90s. So I you know I think that there's stuff in there and
that's just really worth looking at. And you know we had cut pieces that were
27 of 32

�relatively short but like you know the piece we did on Nicole Eisenman I'm
pretty sure I shot that. I mean I was there for an hour and a half two hours is
probably two hours of material of her you know. So but you know we can only
air a five minute segment. So it's you know so there's going to be a lot of really
interesting stuff if somebody can track down those tapes.
01:13:01
MP: And the reality is there's no time to lose. High 8 does not it doesn't.
Archive very well.
AB: Yeah it's not stable at all. Yeah. Well I'll definitely bring that up and I'm sure
that there's going to be a lot of interest in it and hopefully if Maxine has the
same memory that you do we can get those tapes out into the eyes of new
viewers.
01:13:27
MP: Yeah that'd be great. Yeah.
AB: Oh one other thing I want to quickly ask you about was the music in the
program.
I noticed there was some credit that would say you know thanks to music
donation from so and so. But I was just curious about how you did wind up
sourcing the music and how you would go about picking it. For example, I was a
lesbian child has a very distinct song that plays before the segment starts and I
was just wondering if you could talk about that a little bit too.
01:13:57
MP: Well we...the opening that we used what is the credits say I can't remember
who it was. It was a lesbian band and we got permission from them. But
everything else we found three you know music music places like music DVDs,
like sound effects to be honest like that we were just kind of scoured places and
um I think in some instances we had some. People compose specific music for
specific pieces but for the most part we were working with just free source
material whenever we could because we knew that it was going to be broadcast
and we didn't know what to run into any copyright issues. So the main people
that we thought like we need get permission from. The group that gave us the
music for the intro. And it was like it was like a feminist punk band. I can't
remember their name right now.
28 of 32

�01:15:10
AB: Yeah I'll double check the credits I know I've seen it a couple of times and
unfortunately I didn't note it down before speaking with you but there's some
very. Of the time period music in there and it's pretty pretty funky.
01:15:27
MP: Definitely.
AB: Well I think I basically covered everything I wanted to discuss right now. I
mean unless there's anything else that you would like us to know in terms of
you know what you would like people to take away from the program and how
you how you'd like us to share it with wider audiences.
MP: I mean I guess I would say I would encourage you to talk to other people. I
mean I know you tried it you try Linda Chapman?
01:15:57
Yeah. Well we basically e-mailed any. Linda was definitely one of them. We've
sent out e-mails to anybody whose e-mail we had basically And yeah we didn't
really hear much back apart from you and Laura.
MP: OK let me look up Linda because I can't imagine that Linda would want it
when she's really busy. But I mean.
AB: Well I love that she corresponded a little bit with Maxine before we got
started just in terms of saying yeah it's OK for the stuff to get digitized but she
didn't necessarily get back to us. The students who were hoping to incorporate
your words into the site.
01:16:40
MP: So to speak Laura, if you could to Linda. Ana Maria. I think she's hard. I
don't know if she talks about Dyke TV She's she's so she could be difficult to
get permission from. I would think that Linda would talk and Sally I think
would talk to if you know when she has time. So maybe you can leave that up to
the next group to try to track down Sally and Linda I think they're there they're
going to go with their memory. You know even Harriet Hirschhorn, she'll
probably be here any minute. Oh she was you know she wasn't one of the
29 of 32

�founders, meaning she wasn't at that first meeting with me, Linda and Ana. But
she wasn't about involved pretty much right away, Harriet. She did the news and
she is very very active in the Lesbian Avengers and ACT UP. A video activist.
You know always one of the main contributors to Dyke TV. She might she
might be someone you want to talk to and I think she have time to talk to you.
01:17:54
AB: OK. Well that would be fantastic. Maybe when you see her if you see her
today just mentioned to her that we're doing this project and if she's open to
getting in touch I would obviously love to speak with her.
MP: OK. Yeah I think that just because I think people are going to remember
different things. It was such a communal effort. There were so many people
involved that it wouldn't be great to get as many point of views as possible. Well
I think that's it for me though.
AB: Oh. Oh. So maybe this is something as well that you might want to think
about and then let me know my e-mail. But one of my classmates wanted me to
ask you about how you would like the materials that LHA has to be cited. So say
for example, somebody watches what we put up online on the site and they
want to give credit. Is there a particular way you would like that to be. I mean I
guess it depends on which video they're actually talking about. But if you have
any preferences or ideas about that we'd like to know so we can put that on the
site as well.
01:19:02
MP: Let me talk to Sally about it, because she's very... I mean like I said she's
going to law school, but even before her interest in personally getting into law
She was always a little concerned about like liability and you know so I don't feel
like we, I don't think either of us would want to be credited. I think we'd be like
that Dyke TV was a collection of blah blah blah. You know after this video
artists who came together to produce a week weekly which ended up turning
into a monthly by the way it didn't work. I think the first year it was a week and
it converted to monthly But I can I can. Let me check with Sally and a few
other people about how that should be cited. OK.

30 of 32

�AB: Yeah. Because I mean we can we can kind of come up with something that
what we most prefer. I mean it's very important to us that we would do as much
as possible in your words coming from you rather than you know just trying to
piece things together by looking things up from various web sites or any
scholarly resources. It's better if it comes from you.
MP: OK. Yeah. Oh I'll see if I can track down Sally. And you know I'll talk to
Harriet, just ask around just indulge me if you don't hear for me.
AB: OK. So just so we can kind of be on the same page here. We basically need
to submit everything to LHA, I think. I think it's by the 8th of December.
01:20:43
So if you have any information leading up to say maybe the fifth. That would be
better because we we've got to put everything online and have everything
written and checked and basically ready to go. We're going to deliver a hard drive
we're going to deliver this site with all of the materials and everything that we're
doing at least for this time around needs to be completed by that date.
MP: Do you mind sending me away to the site when you're done.
AB: Yeah absolutely. I mean right now what we have is like a unpublished
working site that we're doing because everything is just finally starting to come
together now. How our class works is that there's different groups doing the
details and other groups are doing the metadata for everything. And then now
that we have all of that we're able to start putting things up. So it's still under
construction. But once it's ready to go I'll be more happy of course to send you
a link to the site. It's going to be part of the Lesbian Herstory Archive website
so you can see what our classes have been doing for previous years like there's
other projects that document that daughters of politeness and a bunch of other
oral histories that LHA has. So I can send you a link for that now. But the
segment on Dyke TV really isn't up yet but when it is I'll send you the direct link
to that as well.
01:22:01
MP: Well OK. Awesome.
31 of 32

�AB: Yeah yeah. Thank you so much for taking a chance to speak with me I am
really really pleased that we got this opportunity to work on the project as a
whole. And now it's just even better getting the chance to talk with you in
person because it's making everything kind of come to life so to speak.
MP: Great. Happy to help you.
AB: Yeah thank you so much. And if if at any point there's something else that
you might want to say that maybe he forgot any other bits of information you
think we should have in order to do Dyke TV justice on the site. Feel free to get
in touch I'll be happy to chat again or if you just want to send something and email as well that's fine.
01:22:44
MP: OK. Great. Great.
AB: Well thanks again so so very much. Y
MP: Yeah thanks for your work, appreciate It.
AB: Yeah absolutely. Oh and by the way Mary, would you like a copy of this
interview for any reason or are you just happy to be in LHA hands.
01:23:02
MP: Sure. I think I'll take it if you have it. I'll give it to my niece.
01:23:04
AB: Yeah. Great. OK so once I have it I'll just send it to you by we transfer. If
you get that service. Yes. All right. Perfect. Thank you so much and I hope you
enjoy the rest of the weekend Take care. We'll be in touch again soon. OK. T
MP: take care. Thank you. Bye bye.

32 of 32

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                  <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Dyke TV was a groundbreaking public access program founded in 1993 by Mary Patierno, Ana Marie Simo and Linda Chapman. An offshoot of the Lesbian Avengers, the mission of Dyke TV was to incite, provoke, and organize to create tangible change. The program sought to increase lesbian visibility and change people's attitudes towards lesbians, gay rights and women's rights. Dyke TV comprehensively documented a critical time in gay and lesbian history and shared stories important to lesbian communities that were ignored by other media outlets. Dyke TV documented many LGBTQ political actions of the early 1990s including the activities of ACT UP and the Lesbian Avengers. The Dyke TV collection at the Lesbian Herstory Archives consists largely of unedited footage that documents marches and demonstrations in New York City. Other tapes include incomplete episodes and compilations of show segments.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;The program first aired in June 1993 on the Manhattan Neighborhood Network public access channel. It started off as a weekly 30-minute program created by a core of producers with help from members of the community. Following a magazine format, each program consisted of various segments such as I Was a Lesbian Child, the Arts, From the Archives, News, and Eyewitness. Areas of interest included lesbian history, daily life, activism, and international LGBTQ issues. The producers aimed to create a well-rounded program that could highlight lesbian life from as many angles as possible. According to one of the program’s co-founders and executive producer, Mary Patierno: “if anybody wanted to do a story we let them do it. We were there to let people voice whatever they wanted to, whatever issues or topics that were of interest to them.” At its peak, Dyke TV was distributed to 78 public access channels throughout the United States.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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                <text>In this interview Mary Patierno, co-founder and executive producer of DykeTV discusses DykeTV, a groundbreaking public access program produced by and for lesbians.  Pateirno talks about the program’s history and its goals.  She mentions some of DykeTV’s important news stories and recollects some of the interviews the show conducted with women artists, activists and public figures. Patierno stresses the importance of preserving other DykeTV footage that currently remains in storage. She also describes the production and post-production process, the ideas behind show segments and reflects on how she would like the show to be remembered.&#13;
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The transcript can be searched when viewed in the document viewer below.</text>
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                  <text>Part-ethnography and part-history, &lt;em&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold&lt;/em&gt; by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy is an intimate history of a lesbian community in Buffalo, New York. It combines the ethnographic method of a rigorous study of a single community’s culture and identity, along with the historian’s urge to analyze the specific forces that shape these communities over time. In terms of primary sources, this historical analysis relied on the Buffalo Women’s Oral History Project. This extensive oral history project began in 1978 and extended through the next 13 years. Interview subjects were working-class lesbian women from Buffalo, New York who described their experiences during the period from the mid-1930s to the early 1960s. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These recordings of interviews with working-class lesbians are rich with wisdom, insight and emotion. Interviews discuss a wide range of topics including butch/femme roles, gendered sexuality, relationships, family dynamics, the bar scene, religion, realization of homosexuality, coming out, lesbian mothers, oppression, police brutality, race, gay rights movements, women in the military, youth, and identity. They offer dynamic first-person perspectives of the place and time before the emergence of the gay and lesbian liberation movements. From these stories surface the personal struggles and triumphs of the lesbian community during an intensely oppressive time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For recordings related to the publication of Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold, see &lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/54"&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: Related Audio Recordings, 1977-1990&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The recordings were donated to the archives by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy and were subsequently digitized by students from the Pratt Institute, Projects in Digital Archives class, LIS-665.</text>
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                <text>Side A: Mary briefly describes her childhood and family dynamics. Mary and the interviewer then discuss the first time Mary recognized being different and her thoughts on desiring women at a young age, yet not knowing about lesbianism as a concept or about the lesbian community. Mary then recalls the first time she encountered the word "lesbian" when she joined the U.S. Air Force and describes her experiences with women while in the service. Mary talks about being a lesbian in the military, the investigation into her conduct, and her dishonorable discharge. After Mary got another job, she started going to a bar in Buffalo, N.Y., and she talks about the other lesbians she met there. Mary then discovered other bars and talks about the scene as well as the role-playing of butch and femme. &#13;
&#13;
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Side B: Mary continues the discussion on butch and femme role-playing. She elaborates on fights, holding down jobs, and being "out." She also explains the relationships lesbians had with gay men in Buffalo, N.Y., and the bar scene dynamics of mixed, gay, or lesbian bars. Mary and the interviewer discuss gay activism and the difficulties of being involved in activism at that time. Mary also describes outings where there was a risk of being visible as a group, such as going on picnics or renting cottages. She elaborates on her experience with social dynamics like cliques and having heterosexual friends within the lesbian and gay community. Mary then expands upon the nature of her relationships with women as well as with black lesbians - racial prejudice and relationships are discussed. &#13;
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                  <text>Buffalo Women's Oral History Project, 1978-1990</text>
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                  <text>Part-ethnography and part-history, &lt;em&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold&lt;/em&gt; by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy is an intimate history of a lesbian community in Buffalo, New York. It combines the ethnographic method of a rigorous study of a single community’s culture and identity, along with the historian’s urge to analyze the specific forces that shape these communities over time. In terms of primary sources, this historical analysis relied on the Buffalo Women’s Oral History Project. This extensive oral history project began in 1978 and extended through the next 13 years. Interview subjects were working-class lesbian women from Buffalo, New York who described their experiences during the period from the mid-1930s to the early 1960s. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These recordings of interviews with working-class lesbians are rich with wisdom, insight and emotion. Interviews discuss a wide range of topics including butch/femme roles, gendered sexuality, relationships, family dynamics, the bar scene, religion, realization of homosexuality, coming out, lesbian mothers, oppression, police brutality, race, gay rights movements, women in the military, youth, and identity. They offer dynamic first-person perspectives of the place and time before the emergence of the gay and lesbian liberation movements. From these stories surface the personal struggles and triumphs of the lesbian community during an intensely oppressive time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;For recordings related to the publication of Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold, see &lt;a href="http://herstories.prattinfoschool.nyc/omeka/collections/show/54"&gt;Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: Related Audio Recordings, 1977-1990&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The recordings were donated to the archives by Madeline Davis and Elizabeth Kennedy and were subsequently digitized by students from the Pratt Institute, Projects in Digital Archives class, LIS-665.</text>
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          <description>If the image is of an object, state the type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data</description>
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              <text>tape cassette</text>
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              <text>46:44</text>
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              <text>&lt;br /&gt;&#13;
&lt;h4&gt;&lt;a href="/mp3_files/SPW461_MARY_A.wav.mp3" target="_blank"&gt;Download Side A&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;&#13;
&lt;h4&gt;&lt;a href="/mp3_files/summer2012/SPW461_Mary_T_B.wav.mp3" target="_blank"&gt;Download Side B&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h4&gt;</text>
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                <text>Mary T., July 7, 1978 (Tape 2)</text>
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                <text>Lesbian Bars</text>
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                <text>Lesbian and gay experience</text>
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                <text>Mary describes the bar scene, parties, fashion, music, bar layouts, and fights at Bingo's and Carousel bars.</text>
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                <text>Lesbian Herstory Archives</text>
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            <name>Date Created</name>
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                <text>1978-07-07</text>
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            <name>Date Modified</name>
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                <text>Pratt Institute, School of Information and Library Science, 665 Projects in Digital Archives Students</text>
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                <text>This recordings is 2 of 2 tapes recorded with Mary T on 1978-07-07.</text>
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                <text>tape cassette "SPW461 Mary T"</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="24123">
                <text>Kennedy, E. L. &amp; Davis, M. D. (1993). Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold: The History of a Lesbian Community. New York: Routledge</text>
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                <text>eng</text>
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                <text>SPW# 461</text>
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            <name>Spatial Coverage</name>
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                <text>Buffalo, N.Y. </text>
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                <text>1957-1961</text>
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                <text>Lesbian Herstory Archives, Contact Designation: Maxine Wolfe, Contact Address: 484 14th Street, Brooklyn, NY 11215, Phone Number: 718-768-3953</text>
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                <text>&lt;a href="/omeka/rights-statement" target="_blank" rel="noopener"&gt; See the LHA Copyright Statement&lt;/a&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: 400;"&gt;Licensed under CC BY-NC-ND&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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